As a Seattle Sonics fan I’m curious if anyone from OKC has watched this yet, and your thoughts. I think most of the blame for losing the Sonics was directed at Howard Schultz, and the WA state legislature, and not to Bennett. I think that if Bennett had been honest from the begining that he wanted to move the team, instead of saying that the team was bought to keep it in Seattle that a lot of the bad feelings toward OKC would not be a problem now.

I am a huge Oklahoma City Thunder fan. I watched the Sonicgate video with much skepticism. I do not understand why Sonics view Thunder fans with so much animosity. All we have done is support our team and the team before that (Hornets). I do understand you would be bitter about your team leaving after 41 years. But be mad at the people who made that happen. Your state legislature do not approve the funds needed to make an NBA team economically viable. Our state did. So therefore we got the team.

Cameron, I don’t think that Sonic fans have any animosity towards Thunder fans what so ever. Don’t know if you fully read what I said, but essentially I agree with you, that it was primarily the fault of the state, and city government of WA and Seattle, and I thought that the movie expressed that as well. It does show how Bennett lied about his intentions, and I’ve never heard any Seattle fan talk bad about the fans in OKC, just Bennett. All Seattle fans did was support their team for 41 years, David Stern says that as well in the movie.

After having just watched the video, I agree with Jesse. The “Bad” guys in this debacle in order would be 1. Schultz 2. Stern 3.Nickels/Legislature/Politicians 4.W.Walker/Basketball decisions from ’98 – ’06 5.Bennett/OKC ownership group

That video was extremely well done. It portrayed the entire situation very well.

If I were a Thunder season ticket holder, I would be a bit nervous with your ownership group. We’ll see if they come up with the money to keep the core players and add free agents as needed. In the future, who knows, maybe they will lie to you as they hold your fine city hostage for a better arena deal ?

The feel good movie of the year! Go Thunder!

The reason for some animosity against OKC fans is evident in the first comment by Jojo and, if you take the time to visit the Seattle Times sports page forum, you’ll see it peppered with OKC fans still taunting Seattle. I don’t get it. Enjoy your team- why rub it in?

Watching with the bias of a Thunder fan, I didn’t think the film touched on the Oklahoma City situation enough to fully explain why Clay Bennett and LLC were buying the Sonics. It all started with Katrina and the wild success the Hornets had while playing their two seasons in OKC; for a while there was speculation that the Hornets might not return to New Orleans because they were so popular here.

There was a desire for our own NBA team- it didn’t have to be the Sonics. I don’t think the NBA should have left Seattle (but as bad as Key Arena was with Schultz losing his $60 million, a deal should’ve been reached and the city/state government shares a blame in that), we should’ve instead gone after the Pacers or Grizzlies to move to OKC. With the Sonics tradition there is a good chance a new team will be formed or move back to Seattle (similar to Cleveland Browns after the team moved to Baltimore).

Hey Mike. The Jojo comment is the fifth comment not the first. And this paper’s sports section is littered with Seattle fans in the comment section. At least this Thunder fan stays home and defends his turf. I don’t give a damn what is written in a Seattle paper. I’m sure it’s a great town with great people, but I’m absolutely sick of hearing Sonics fans whine when they only have their own community to blame.

No, Jojo. We don’t have the community to blame. We have our state legislators to blame since they couldn’t pony up $75 million to go with the $75 million the city of Seattle was going to put in along with the VERY generous offer of $150 million that Microsoft exec. Steve Ballmer and his partners publicly said they would contribute to the remodel of Key Arena.

In contrast, Clay Bennett and his partners NEVER said publicly how much money they would contribute to the $500 million arena that they wanted built in Renton, just south of Seattle!! They asked that a new arena be built with such an outrageous cost and then wouldn’t even commit to how much of the cost of it they were willing to pay themselves ’cause they knew that it would never be agreed to by the local politicians. They made a request that they knew would NEVER be granted just so that they could say,

” Well, we tried. Oh, well. We’re gonna move now!! ”

The ” salt in the wound ” is the fact that Bennett wanted, as part of the settlement, a ” shared history ” of the team between Seattle and OKC (and viewers are reminded of this at the end of the movie). If what I read is true, there was even former Sonics players mentioned in the Thunder media guide last season!! If you’re going to ” start over from scratch ” by renaming the team, you might as well go all the way by not acknowledging the teams history in it’s previous city!! Even though they had absolutely no connection with the Thunder, does Bennett one day plan on hanging the jerseys of such Sonics greats as Dennis Johnson, Gus Williams, Jack Sikma, and Spencer Haywood from the rafters of the Ford Center?!! THE NERVE!!

Are state legislators not elected up there? Are they not part of the community? Of course they are. The community failed. Now go away, we’re busy. It’s basketball season.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Irrelevant words, from an irrelevant person, from an irrelevant state, and irrelevant community. Is your governor not elected down there? Is he not a member of the community?? Of course he is. Your communtity hired the perverts that raped those women at the governors mansion. Your community raped these women. Now go away, we’re busy. It’s football season.

Things like what happened at your governors mansion, the poor schools, and the poor communities is exactly why a guy like Desmond Mason left his family behind in Portland where he lives when he had to come back to OKC via trade.

Dear Alan,

It is a shared history, how could it not be? But, let me assure, thunder fans do not want to see those jerseys hung in the Thunder Dome.

We’re making our own history and how the THunder got here is part of it.

Why are yall even here?

And what a proud history it is. At least your helping the clippers look like a world class organization. “Why yall even here?” This is what the rest of the NBA is asking OKC.

I think Alan is talking more about the Stats than how the team got there. Gary Payton never played for the thunder, yet he is the thunders all time leader in points assists and steals. Numbers which no thunder player will ever surpass.

Actually most of the things I read that are written about the Thunder are very positive. Good young core group of players, tons of cap space, etc…. I’d be jealous to, but not jealous enough to jump on a website half way across the country and bad mouth a organization or their fans.

The only one here bad mouthing “fans” is you slim, take a look in the mirror. Obviously your the one who is “jealous” slim. Jealous of Seattle, and how much better it is than OKC. So much so that you have to try to rub it in that the team is in OKC now. Man, you people really do have an inferiority complex. I can understand though, if everyone around the country thought that everyone from the state I lived in was an illiterate hick I’d probably act the way you do as well. Yes, you do have a solid core of young players, and you have lots of cap space because you can’t get any solid free agents to sign, but we’ll see how long that lasts. Watch Durant and his Seattle agent say goodbye to OKC soon. You better try to sign and trade him or you’ll get nothing for him.

Please point out where I bad mouthed anyone, much less rubbed it in. If you weren’t here you wouldn’t be reading this. See how that works?

I like that this still hurts you so much, please keep posting. I can almost see your pathetic tears from here.

Darnell,

i was wondering what you thought of the documentary?
thanks.

slim – did you actually type yall on here? nice!

Keepin real.

Gary Payton is listed as the Thunder’s all time leader in points, assists, and steals?!!

HE NEVER PLAYED FOR THE THUNDER!! WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!!

So, it’s ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS for him to be listed that way!!
If I were GP, I would consider suing Bennett’s ass for that!!

Give me a break!!

This franchise wasn’t born yesterday, it’s existed for over 40 years, and Thunder fans should be proud of that history and of the greatness of players like Payton who are part of the team which is now ours. Of course his records should NOT be wiped out any more than those of the Brooklyn Dodgers or Houston Oilers.

Not only that Alan, when a new Sonics team arrives, with the shared history, GP will lead both the new Sonics, and the thunder in points, assists, and steals. This is why Bennett needs to sell the stats and history back to Seattle when a new team arrives, and start over with the thunder, create their own identity. Until that happens the thunder will always be thought of as the team that used to be the Sonics.

GP is no longer a part of this team, ask him if he’ll come down to OKC for a game to be honored. I promise it won’t happen, he wants nothing to do with your team, or city, and thought it was a stupid move in the first place. I would tend to agree with you Darren, but in this case a new Sonics team will replace the old, unlike brooklyn, and unlike houston where their new team has a different name. Leave the stats and history in Seattle where they belong, and treat the thunder like an expansion team, you already do anyhow, might as go all the way, if you don’t everyone around the country, the first thing they that will come to their heads when they think of the thunder will be “that’s the team that used to be the Sonics.”

No one cares if Gary Payton is gonna come down here for a game but, if he did he would be treated with the respect that he deserves.

It’s a shared history, it’s nothing to cry about, it’s the reality of the situation. Pretty sure seattle has a chance to save the colors, marks and history if they want to step up and do it, but that doesn’t look like it’s going to happen.

Your crazy slim. We got a guy up here in Seattle that wants to buy a team who is one of the richest me in the world. Unlike your millionaire owner, this guy can afford to build his own arena. Don’t forget your friend stern wants to expand into china and Seattle is the 13th largest market and the gateway to china. It’s already in the works slim. Stern has already said that Ballmer would be a great owner, we’ll be back in the game by 2012, and we won’t have a bottom 5 arena like the farce center, we’ll have a world class one.

More cry from the seattle contingent.

Keep it up.

Darren, I’m not suggesting that the proper thing to do would be for Payton’s stats to be ” wiped out ” as you put it.
Of course not. But the team that he earned those stats for no longer exists!! Sonics. Thunder. They are TWO DIFFERENT TEAMS!! If Bennett hadn’t changed the name of the team THEN he would have a moral and ethical right to list Sonics players in Thunder media guides, programs, etc. He has a legal right to do that, but in my opinion, not an ethical or moral right. If you’re going to create an entirely new team from an old one like he has, you have to cut off ALL ties to the old one!!

It’s as if Bennett’s attitude is:

” We’re going to cut off all ties to Seattle by not keeping former Sonic players as assistant coaches (Jack Sikma, Detlef Schrempf) trade all players that played in Seattle with the exception of Durant and Green (Wilkins, Watson, etc.; after the way he’s expressed his love for Seattle it’s just a matter of time before Collison’s gone, too).
But we’re going to pretend that the Thunder have a long, storied history by acting like former Sonic greats actually played for the Thunder. ”

Who do you think you’re going to fool, Clay? He disrespected the fans in OKC by raising your ticket prices by 30% in the very first season. He’s doing it again by treating you people like you’re stupid enough to believe that the Thunder have a history of great, Hall of Fame type players when they don’t!!

Jesse:

” This is why Bennett needs to sell the stats and history back to Seattle when a new team arrives……… ”

Bennett probably WOULD have the nerve to actually charge the ownership group of a new team in Seattle for the rights to their history!!

” Well, I’ll give you back your history. But it’s going to cost you!! You’re going to have to pay up!! You want those retired player jerseys to hang in your arenas rafters again?
OK, but you’re going to have to buy them from me!! “

Christ you people are a bunch of babies. In the settlement that brought the Thunder here it allowed for seattle to keep all those things if they got an arena deal done, which they didn’t. You lose again.

Look at the Tennessee Titans you idiots. Different team, different city, different coaches, different players, same history.

Get over it, move on, kill yourselves, whatever it takes to make you idiots spot crying about this stuff. Focus on the future, get out there and help your city get a new team.

Slim, if YOU’D lost something that was a part of your legacy and culture for 41 years and somebody expected you to just
” get over it “, I’m guessing that you’d think they had a helluva lot of nerve for telling you that.

If the owners of the Titans are doing the same thing that Bennett, McClendon, et al. are doing by claiming that the history of the Oilers (didn’t they used to be the Oilers?) is the history of the Titans, they’re just as guilty. When you create a new team like Bennett did, you have no right to act like the history of a team that no longer exists is the history of the new entirely different team that you created. Bennett gave up that right (moral right, not legal right) when he changed the teams name, changed the teams logo, and changed the teams colors. He’s just created a little fantasy that he has of the Thunder having a history that goes back beyond last season when the team clearly doesn’t!! The reality is that rather than the Thunder having a history of stars (Sikma, Brown, Williams, McDaniel, etc.) and superstars (Payton, Kemp, Allen, Haywood, etc.) the Thunder have a history of only 1 star (possibly superstar) player (Durant). That’s it!!

He bought the team you nut job, and everything that goes with it. Get it. That includes the history. It might piss you off, and I’m glad it does, but that’s the reality of the situation.

In fact, he bought a team that no one in seattle wanted. Do you understand that? Sure at the last minute Ballmer tried to salvage the situation. Too little too late.

You can make Bennet out to be a boogie man, fine by me, but he bought the team and along with it came the history. Your loss.

Darnell,

Thoughts?? or are you not allowed to have an opinion on the matter?

thanks,

” Babies “, ” idiots “, ” nutjobs “.

Slim, I’m not going to lower myself to your level by calling you or anybody else on here names (let alone ” rednecks “, which I know that some people in Seattle have done; that reeks of bigotry). If you and any other fans in OKC want to join Bennett and participate in the fantasy
that those former Sonics players (and many others that I didn’t mention) are a part of Thunder history, go right ahead.

ENJOY YOUR LITTLE BASKETBALL FANTASY!!

You’ll be ignoring reality, but you’ll only be fooling yourself.

Free, I could write a post giving my opinion but I just don’t think it matters. I thought the documentary was good. A lot fairer than I thought it would be, save the occasional jab here and there. A few inaccuracies, such as the Sonics’ media policy in the team’s final season. The Thunder keeps us at a distance here in OKC and it has nothing to do with alienating anyone. But overall I thought the film was well done. It’s sad that Seattle lost the team. I grew up a fan of Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton. I often wonder what would have happened if the City of Seattle or the state of Washington ponied up on the funding. -DM-

I guess since it’s a “shared” history”, and the team name and colors were given to Seattle for a future team in the settlement and Bennett agreed to return the championship trophy, banners, and retired #’s if a team should come back. “Additionally, he owns the Sonics’ original championship trophy, banners and retired jerseys and is permitted to periodically display them in Oklahoma City. For most of the year, the items will be kept in Seattle at the Museum of History and Industry. Bennett agreed to return their ownership to Seattle should an NBA franchise emerge here.” http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nba/2008035531_soni06.html
So really we haven’t lost anything,I just don’t get how the stats will work, I use Payton as an example, when a team comes back to Seattle he will be the leading scorer for 2 franchises. And it would have 2 teams trying to break the same records. It makes no sense to me.

” He bought a team that no one in Seattle wanted. ”

Ballmer and his partners wanted it enough to offer to pay
$150 million of the $300 million construction costs to renovate the Key.

Hey, Slim: you know how much Bennett and his partners said publicly that they’d be willing to pitch in on the construction of the $500 million palace that they wanted built in Renton (south of Seattle)?

ZERO!!

Yes, you are right. Ballmer’s offer was too late. But not too little.

Believe it or not Slim, I don’t blame Bennett for our team being gone. I blame Howard Schultz and the WA state legislature. If Bennett and his partners had simply done the entire thing honestly and ethically rather than lying through their teeth, I would be depressed but not angry.

If Bennett is going to believe that his teams history is the same as the history of a totally different team that no longer exists, hey, why stop there? It wouldn’t surprise me if he even went to the point of altering the 1979 championship trophy so that it no longer says Seattle Supersonics and put the words OKC Thunder in their place. It would be ethically incorrect, but who cares? He owns the thing now, right? lol

Darnell,
thanks for the post. i also grew up a fan of Kemp & Payton. As far as access to the media is concerned, the timing of the “limited access” couldn’t have come at a worse time. Pretty ridiculous if you want to market your team to the fans who support them.
Believe me, there is enough blame to go around on what happened here. Just extremely sad for a team with that long of a tradition.

Great, keep hitting me with those hypotheticals.

I don’t know man watching the NFL’s Titans a while back as they were wearing their retro Houston Oilers uniforms, I couldn’t help but think it was a marketing idea gone bad. I know Warren Moon was interviewed after being honored by the Titans in their stadium for what he had done in his Houston Oiler days decades before. Moon essentially said that it was a very strange feeling and it really didn’t make sense but in the end decided to go along with it as a favor to Bud Adams. To me its all about the owner’s ego, in this case Bud Adams. I would wager the fans of Tennessee didn’t really give a rip that Warren Moon was in their stadium and that he had been honored.
Much like the fans of OKC probably don’t and won’t care much about any and everything Sonics’ history. Just exactly how clueless does Bennett think the Thunder fans are when they crack open their game programs and see the records achieved by a completely different franchise in a completely different city. And this doesn’t even take into account that Bennett is disrespecting great players such as Gary Payton, and other Sonic stars.

As a Sonic fan I’m glad there is a documentary that will serve as a reminder to what had happened. There’s a lot of blame to go around (Washington State/ Seatle legislature, Shultz, Bennett and co.’s lies) but the people in OKC aren’t to blame. I don’t find any point in holding a grudge against people (the fans) who had nothing to do with the whole thing and just want to have a pro franchise to call their own.

The only thing that bothers me is when idiots like Jim Trabor, who hosts a radio show in OKC, blame it on the fans in Seattle for not supporting the team and ignore what Bennet did (BTW, Trabor is the same idiot that took on Nick Collison on his show after Nick said he liked living in Seattle… here’s the link to the podcast: http://podcasting.fia.net/6779/3871196.mp3). We supported the team for 41 years and many consider Seattle a great basketball town (see the clips of how the fans responded to the teams in the 90′s in the documentary). As the documentary states, there was the ‘original sin’, which was signing Jim Mcilvaine, the 7 foot stiff. You could blame the Mcilvaine signing to the eventual breakup of the great Sonics team of the 90′s (Kemp, Payton, George Karl, et al.) We continued to support the Sonics as they struggled in the next decade. When Clay Bennett bought the team, the writing was on the wall that the team would be moved but in that season (06′-07′) Bennett bought the team the average attendance was 15,955 (93.5% of capacity- 12 best in the league). That’s with most of the city and media believing the team was going to move. When Bennett filed for relocation in the final season in Seattle (07′-08′) everyone new that the ownership was going to move the team and it was a obvious lame duck situation.

I know I’m a Seattleite on a OKC blog but I want to respectfully express my point. Good luck to the Thunder in 09′-10′.

Fun reading this stuff. The crying from seattle fans is pretty understandable. The gloating from OKC fans is not. They talk about “well we didn’t do it, Bennett did!” but that’s like someone saying “I didn’t steal that tv, my roommate did” while they sit and watch it every night. Morally bankrupt and disgusting. I wish nothing but the worst for the “thunder” and they and their fans’ disgusting behavior is good in only one way: it gives actual b-ball fans a good team to hate and root against. Sonics/sonicfans, you got my sympathy, but don’t let the flyover people get you down.

-CelticsFan