Military pay bill to be heard this week

“Opponents, mostly family law attorneys and former military spouses, say this measure hurts family, is a major policy change and ignores that fact that military retirement pay is often the only asset a military family has accumulated after moving several times as enlisted members of the military.”

This above statement is nonsense. Very few retirees still have children at home should a divorce happen at this time.
That the retirment pay may be the only asset is no different than working for any other company for 20 years and putting nothing else aside as a supplement.

The only valid part of this is that attorneys and former spouses want money that they did not earn.

Thank you for spreading the word about this disturbing discriminatory bill. Every occupation in every state in our nation in the year 2010 is afforded pension division. This bill aims to make Oklahoma the exception to that rule and make Oklahoma the only state in the nation that lashes out at military spouses by stripping them of now common family law protections nation-wide.

People whose occupations are police officers, firemen, doctors, varying corporate professions, as well as non-profit professions all encounter pension division upon divorce when marital property is split.

The majority of the public comments referencing statutes and regulations, etc. that are being posted on this website in support of the bill are direct “copy and paste” text from failed legal challenges over three decades that have occurred all over the nation in both courts and the U.S. Congress. Everyone who hears these arguments and then reconciles them with how civilian marriages handle property division rejects these weak arguments.

There should be outrage in Oklahoma that at a time our nation is at war, military spouses, who’ve been pulling double duty for much of the last decade, are being carved out just in the great State of Oklahoma to be stripped of now standard legal protections in every state in our nation.

Supporters of the bill are divorced military service members angry and bitter that U.S. laws split their pension with their spouses at divorce. They therefore present the idea that military retirement is not a retirement but reduced pay or income, a notion that has been rejected for decades. A small, special interest group has raised funds, hired a national lobbyist who is an Oklahoman, and thus out of the blue, this bill with no legal justification from any perspective appears in the Oklahoma Legislature.

The bill would strip almost 1/2 a million Oklahoma military spouses of equitable treatment with other occupations, and then the bill would afford military service members preferential treatment. All because one Okla. constituent, a military service member, got divorced and both a state-level court and the Okla. Supreme Court rejected his view that military spouses should be stripped of pension division, so he decided to try to change state law even if it meant embarrassing the state of Oklahoma in the eyes of the rest of the country who respect military spouses and afford them pension division just like civilian spouses.

It would be most unfortunate to be a non-Oklahoman military family just stationed in Oklahoma on a brief 3 year tour, and find oneself in the worst state in the nation regarding its treatment and respect of military spouses (if this bill passes). If the bill passes and I were a military spouse in 2010, I would never want my military family to be stationed in Oklahoma based on principle.

Some educated, informed Oklahoma veterans who support family values are embarrassed that some of their peer military service members have served their country and in exchange now seek preferential treatment above that afforded non-military professionals.

All the comments that military retirement is not really a retirement are weak. That the military spouse should be the only spouse in the nation stripped of pension division rights is weak also. Military retirements should continue to be split at divorce as marital property just as every other occupations pensions are split.

In short, very bad bill! Military spouses should receive the same family law protections and rights as civilian spouses.

Here is an example of the preferential treatment that this discriminatory bill will afford:

Say a husband (military career) and a wife (corporate career) divorce in 2005 in Oklahoma. The state court would have properly divided their pensions as marital property: the husband would get 50% of his wife’s pension, and the wife would get 50% of her husband’s pension. Now, imagine that this discriminatory bill passes and becomes Oklahoma state law. Then say they both remarry other persons in 2011.

1. although the husband (military career) remarried, because there is no anti-corporate former spouse bill in Oklahoma, the husband would now get 100% of the military retirement, and continue receiving 50% of his wife’s corporate pension.
2. the wife (corporate career) remarries also, and because of this bad bill, she will only receive 50% of her corporate pension, while the other 50% of her corporate pension continues going to her military ex-husband and he keeps 100% of his military retirement.

So of the 2 combined pensions of the couple, the military service members receives 75% of them, while the former military spouse receives 25%.

Bad bill, poorly thought, and poorly written if the desire was equitable treatment…. But because the whole purpose of the bill was to strip military spouses of now standard legal rights so that military service members could be afforded preferential treatment, the bill’s provision are actually drafted very creatively so that the end result of the bill is not so obvious.

Simple question: why should a career military divorce not have pension division for life when a career police officer divorce does? Bad bill! Very bad bill!

My name is William Gill,

I served 20 years 7 months and 3 days in the US Navy as an Aviation Electrician and Naval Aircrew Member. I am currently 70% disabled due to injuries received while in the service of my county.

My message is short PLEASE support HB 1053.

This bill provides fairness and equality for our retired and divorced Oklahoma service members both male and female in all branches of the military.
Military retainer pay is just that retainer pay not a retirement system that my wife or I contributed into.

THIS IS JUST PLAIN WRONG.

Oklahoma courts have looked at military retirement as a qualified retirement plan that both husband and wife contributed to. The courts have then AWARDED the military retainer pay for LIFE to the other divorced spouse even upon remarriage. When an ex-spouse of a service member remarries, or co-habilitates with another person of the opposite sex, then, like other federal and state statutes the garnered payments of Military Retainer/Retired Pay to the ex spouse should be terminated.

We must stop allowing Courts to award military retirement/retainer pay to an ex-spouse for LIFE! No other federal Retirement system does this including the FBI, FSA, CIA, Social Security, and the Oklahoma Public Employee Retirement System (State Senators, State Represenative, Judges, and Teachers ETC.

THIS IS RIGHT!

The military member should not be required to financially support an ex-spouse and his/her new family, or partner, for LIFE!

I was injured while on active duty and don’t ever remember my spouse jumping out of the airplane with me or repairing airplanes for the Navy. She did not work in freezing weather with hands numb from the cold or fixing an aircraft under a 120-degree desert sun. I do not remember her in the E-6B mercury while I was in flying in a thunderstorm through severe turbulence being tossed around like a rag doll. I love my wife, however, she was not the one risking her life everyday. Although, the majority of military spouses make sacrifices, they do not put the same time, effort and dedication that every airman, marine, sailor, soldier does.

HB 1053 also prohibits Oklahoma courts from awarding VA Disability Compensation to a third party (ex spouse), which is in violation of Federal law. No person has the right to seek benefits from an injury to another caused by military service. Not only is this appalling, but also it is unconstitutional.

Respectfully,
William H Gill III
3436 Royalwood Cir.
Del City, OK. 73115

I can’t tell you how many times over the past twenty years I have had a young NCO sitting across my desk because he just got home from an 6 month deployment and his wife and kids are gone. He found out his wife was 4 months pregnant (not his) from the neighbors, his bank accounts have been emptied, credit cards maxed out, bills not paid and a bunch of hot checks where cashed at the BX, Commissary and anywhere else she could. 3 months later she is demanding alimony and child support payments thru the legal system and gets them. Mean while the military is holding him responsible for all her charges, and any damages that she has done.

HE HAS TO PAY BACK EVERYTHING. She still has free medical till the divorce is final appox 1-2 years which also means Uncle Sam pays for medical for her and the baby.
Now many years later (8-12) HE has DESIDED TO SETTLE DOWN she comes knocking at the door saying she got a lawyer and he promised her 40-50% of his retainer pay.
DOES THAT SOUND FAIR AND EQUIL TO YOU

My name is William Gill, and I served 20 years 7 months and 3 days in the US Navy as an Aviation Electrician and Naval Aircrew Member. I am currently 70% disabled due to injuries received while in the service of my county.

My message is short PLEASE SUPPORT HB 1053.

This bill provides fairness and equality for our retired and divorced Oklahoma service members both male and female in all branches of the military.

Military retainer pay is just that retainer pay not a retirement system that my wife or I contributed into.

THIS IS JUST PLAIN WRONG.

Oklahoma courts have looked at military retirement as a qualified retirement plan that both husband and wife contributed to. The courts have then AWARDED the military retainer pay for LIFE to the other divorced spouse even upon remarriage. When an ex-spouse of a service member remarries, or co-habilitates with another person of the opposite sex, then, like other federal and state statutes the garnered payments of Military Retainer/Retired Pay to the ex spouse should be terminated.

We must stop allowing Courts to award military
retirement/retainer pay to an ex-spouse for LIFE! No other federal Retirement system does this including the FBI, FSA, CIA, Social Security, and the Oklahoma Public Employee Retirement System (State Senators, State Represenative, Judges, and Teachers ETC.

THIS IS RIGHT!

The military member should not be required to financially support an ex-spouse and his/her new family, or partner, for LIFE!

I was injured while on active duty and don’t ever remember my spouse jumping out of the airplane with me or repairing airplanes for the Navy. She did not work in freezing weather with hands numb from the cold or fixing an aircraft under a 120-degree desert sun. I do not remember her in the E-6B mercury while I was in flying in a thunderstorm through severe turbulence being tossed around like a rag doll. I love my wife, however, she was not the one risking her life everyday. Although, the majority of military spouses make sacrifices, they do not put the same time, effort and dedication that every airman, marine, sailor, soldier does.

HB 1053 also prohibits Oklahoma courts from awarding VA Disability Compensation to a third party (ex spouse), which is in violation of Federal law. No person has the right to seek benefits from an injury to another caused by military service. Not only is this appalling, but also it is unconstitutional.

Respectfully,
William H Gill

This bill is long overdue in addressing the inequities impacting Veterans in state courts. Senators keep your promise to support Veterans by passing HB 1053 and remember Veterans this Memorial Day

This is a bill that should have been passed long ago. Just because the spouse is married to the service member does not give them entitlement to the service members pay active or retired. I agree that the service member has financial responsibilities, however in recent years many service members have been in harms way and for extended time periods. Spouses have not been in harms way, just doing a hard job as a single parent while the spouse is deployed.

Ashton,

You keep beating your chest proclaiming you are a defender of former spouses.
In actuallity, you are a divorce attorney trying to justify your position of attacking a veterans federal entitlement for your own profit via the former spouse by twisting,embellishing and full on fables of what retired/retainer pay truley is. You fail to mention current statuets and regulations that support HB 1053. The biggest problem is not with the former spouses so much as the divorce attorneys who have made an obsession of chasing the stream of income the U.S. Goverment entitles to Veterans. Call DFAS, they will be more than happy to provide the dollar amount they pay out to former spouses on a monthly basis and that dosen’t include what veterans are paying out of pocket that DFAS dosen’t pay. There the real reason for your zealous behavior. BTW, various nationally known veterans organizations have documentation of Attorneys working contingency fees based on how much retired/retainer pay they can get for an ex spouse. I think this is in violation of ABA rules of professional conduct and most states if not all states subscribe to this as well.
So don’t think this going un noticed.

How you can sleep at night is anyones guess.

I am a former wife of a retired MSgt. USAF. I have not read the bill, but I will tell you that I raised my kids by myself, we had two boys. My ex and I (while still married) lived apart for ten years, out of the 20 he was in service.
I get half of his retirement pay. He was an electronics tech. He served 18 months in Japan, otherwise mostly in California. I feel I worked just as much as he did, as I cared for my kids, and my house – inside and out. I learned how to make repairs on our OLD cars – by experience. During the time he was in service, employers frowned on short term employees. They would not hire fearing the family would be moving.Not so now. So at that time, a spouse couldn’t make her/his own money, or have a career. The normal pay wasn’t enough to even send the spouse to college – to prepare for their future out of the military. I feel any changes should not include those who enlisted before the mindset of the “shorter job life”. I can’t do my life over and save for a rainey day. I am disabled, and can’t work anymore. All I have is that pension, disability, and for a short time longer, some alimony. Last year I had a little over $10,000 income. IF it wasn’t for the pension, I would not be able to survive. As for me, I never plan to remarry. BUT I am not the type that would ‘shack up’ with someone. If I were to ‘fall in love’, I would get married again. As I said, I feel that I earned that pension money…

Mary,
I can appreciate your position, however I am curious as to how you were able to pay the household finances, mortgage,rent, medical,dental,food, utilities,insurance,car payments, credit ect while you were still married to your actve duty husband ? Was your family compensated with benifits/pay from the Airforce while your husband was on active duty? Can you tell me if you are personally held accountable to active duty recall, UCMJ, employment restrictions,criminal convictions to recieve part of your ex husbands retainer pay? As far as the “shorter job life”, I’m pretty sure military spouse preference for government jobs has been around for the past 2o years or so. What if you were a single parent with out a military spouse during that time period? How or who would have paid your bills during that time? I hazard to say, but there are far more former spouses out there within the last 20 years that had the oppurtunity to work,raise kids, manage a household and yes, persue an education. Military retired/retainer pay is not a pension. It is an income/paycheck post active duty in the event the DoD needs a readly trained military force in the course of national defense with obligations attached to the retiree, not the former spouse.

I am glad if it passed my dad is in his sixties has been working while in kidney failure so he can support the ex and his new wife! he came home and she had his best friend in bed ran up to 80,000 dollars in credit card debt in his name. shes remarried now for 19 yrs 6 months and his military pay is payin for her new hubbies truck!!!Rediculous many mothers are single mothers at least their husbands sent a check home! this seem like another way to get men to support lazy women!Just like our child support laws! she collects checks to go out on!!! the kids are grown!WTF!!! My dad deserves better from the country he fought in 2 wars for! he suffers because she had it so hard whatever boo whoo! he was shot at slept in horrible places and had no contact with his family!Our veterans and military deserve way more than this shotty treatment!!How about she gets a job if im a single parent thats the first thing most people scream but at least your ex sent home the check between gunfire right!!!!!!!When again did you risk your life!! OOOh yeah and by the way sitting collecting a check!Is not the same!!! I love my country but god do some of our laws disappoint me!!My dad was marride to her for twenty years even my sister {half sister}wouldn,t talk to her own mom cause its wrong!!I love my dad 20 years with his ex doesn’t meanshe earned anything you ever think some women just stay there because they know about our laws!!

I agree with Ashton “That the retirment pay may be the only asset is no different than working for any other company for 20 years and putting nothing else aside as a supplement.
“

I provided for my children based on the laws in Maryland in 1996 after a 19yr marriage, I also gave up 39% of my retainer/retirement at this time Now for the kick in the teeth: she remarried another military man, he retired & has since crossed the bar.

My question ???? and feelings are this: provide for your children, But if the ex- wife remarries>>>> So goes the “Formal Spousal Support” or FSA as it states on my quarterly statement from the USCG. Its like she’s double dipping.
Skip

Hello,

I am a EX wife a of USAF retire Sr Mstg. And we was married for almost 12 years. I cut hair for the time we was married and gave it all up to follow in half way around the world. The whole time being over seas I was alone do to the fact he was TDY a lot! I had a son over there and wasn’t able to work do to the fact there wasn’t hardly any jobs. But the time being there I found out threw all his servise buddies he messed around on me the whole time we was there for four years. I seen this all the time happen. Came back to the states and had another kid not wanting anymore cuz I wanted a divorce at this point. Long story short he never stopped messing around on me. I was 100% faithful to the man! I grew up in church and knew wrong from right! But in our Divorce I was granted 50% of his retirement. Now the military is telling me I only get 9 years and so many months and only at the rank he was when we got married. I think this is NOT right and need to know my rights!