National parks and guns: When to carry?

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Sen. Tom Coburn's measure to allow loaded firearms in national parks has stirred debate in Washington.

 

 

It will now be up to President Barack Obama to decide on Sen. Tom Coburn’s legislation that would allow people to carry concealed weapons in national parks.

As it stands, you can have a gun with you in a national park, but it must be secured and unloaded. Coburn’s legislation — an amendment to a credit card measure — changes that. In states that allow concealed weapons, people would be able to carry such weapons in national parks.

We had some debate on this when it first came up. Naturally, there’s quite a bit of emotion from gun control advocates and Second Amendment watchers.

I’m really not into the politics of it. What I am interested in is the practical side of this issue.

As I’ve said previously, I’m a gun owner. Have been for years. I’ve hunted, I’ve shot skeet. I’ve enjoyed shooting with others, particularly those who have a wide variety of firearms that I don’t have. I do not have a conceal/carry permit.

I’ve also been to a number of national parks. At no time in those visits have I carried a firearm with me.

So now I’m going to step into a gray area. Here’s a couple scenarios:

    You’re strolling through downtown Oklahoma City and decide to take a walk through the Oklahoma City National Memorial. Is this an appropriate place to have a loaded firearm with you? Why or why not? (QUICK UPDATE/EDIT — the memorial is a private site. See Nancy Coggins’ comments below, and substitute in some other urban national park site.)

    You’re in Wyoming and are planning to do some heavy-duty backcountry exploration of Yellowstone National Park. Is this an appropriate place to carry a loaded firearm? Why or why not?

I’ve been to both places, though I haven’t been in the backcountry of Yellowstone. My thinking on this, I must admit, may not be very logical. So bear with me.

In any trip to downtown Oklahoma City, I’ve felt pretty safe and didn’t feel the need to have a gun with me. Others may feel differently, and I’d like to hear from you.

I have been bushwhacking alone in Montana and felt extremely vulnerable, knowing that the northern Rockies are home to grizzly bears and mountain lions. Despite the discomfort that backpacking with a high-caliber sidearm might cause, I’d never again go deep into grizzly country without being armed.

I’m sure there’s a bunch of other issues out there worthy of discussion. And I’m sure that discussion is already heating up.

 — Bob Doucette

 

Looking for a list of sites in Oklahoma that are part of the National Park System? Check this link: http://home.nps.gov/applications/parksearch/state.cfm?st=ok

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Comments

Bob,
Just to let you and your readers know, the Oklahoma City National Memorial & Museum is not part of the National Parks System. We are a private, non-profit organization with a partnership that allows National Park Service Interpretive Rangers to interpret our outdoor site. There are two points to make because of this unique relationship. The first is that we do not receive any federal (or state or local) tax dollars to operate or maintain the site or museum, which means that secondly we would not fall under the new guidelines should they be signed into law.

Nancy Coggins, APR
Director of Communications
Oklahoma City National Memorial & Museum

Thanks for the word. However, you seem to be listed on NPS’ site as part of the system. Perhaps their site is out of date? In any case, I appreciate the correction.

I consider it my primary responsibility to protect my children & grandchildren. This law would help me do so against two and four legged predators.

Thanks, Bob. The site is not out of date. It is just a little confusing. We are a partner of the National Park System, so they do list us on their site, but we are not a “unit” of (not run by)the National Park System, and as a private entity do not have the same set of rules or regulations.
Nancy Coggins

Thanks for the clarification. Just for disclosure sake, what is the memorial’s policy on conceal/carry at the outdoors portion of the site?

Whenever one asks, “is X an appropriate place to carry a loaded firearm?” I always wonder whether one’s asking, “do you feel safe there,” or, “do you think that there are those who would disapprove knowing that you were carrying a loaded firearm in that location.”

Regardless, if I feel the need to be armed in order to defend myself or my family, why is it someone else’s decision to decide if it’s appropriate?

For the record, I believe it’s appropriate where ever it is legal.

When I carry my firearm concealed it is to give me piece of mind. I am not walking around looking for a fight or to cause anyone harm. It is sad that I have to carry it at all but I want a fighting chance to protect my family if need be.

Read the front page of the Daily Oklahoma today and that says it all. The pharmacist that shot a 16 year old robber trying to steal drugs. Let’s hope he wasn’t planning to get drugged up and head to your campsite. I guess we could beat him with our disassembled gun.

It is not the law abiding persons who take their saturday to go and take classes then go get background checks then wait 3 months to get a license to LEGALY carry a gun wich men have faught and died for our right to keep and bear arms.that u have to worry about it is the gang bangers and crooks you give up your guns go downtown take youre kids with you and hang out late at night you wont stay long will you.

It has never been the law abiding person who has a conceald weapon you have to worry about they are going about it honest it is the crooks take the guns away and the thugs will out gun the law

And for those innocent victims of gun violence it is their own tough luck, sorry you are dead or maimed. We will punish the shooter though. Unless of course we like the shooter, or he is famous or he/she has a great lawyer, or we don’t like the dead guy.

Those who do not believe guns are the answer have no rights anymore. We just have to hide out of the way until the shooting stops. Which will be never.

People carrying guns onto the Memorial site or into the Memorial Museum has never been a problem, but the policy is the same for both the Outdoor Symbolic Memorial and the Memorial Museum. Concealed weapons are not allowed on the private property, except as approved by law.

The Oklahoma City National Memorial & Museum is owned and operated by a private 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. Because we are privately run, we are not subject to the same regulations as the National Park System Parks.

You go Tom Coburn! I’m tired of the lawmakers trying to take away our rights. When you take the guns away from the people, the only ones that will have them are the crooks. We need to be able to defend ourselves, our homes & our families from the people who are out there to do us harm. I grew up learning how to shoot a gun and how to take care of one. My children grew up the same way. I have a daughter who in the National Guard and she is an expert in shooting. Her children know how to handle a gun as well. If the lawmakers keep making laws that take our rights away, this country is doomed!

I don’t know why the burden should fall on legal gun owners to show a need to carry a gun, especially in a park. The reverse should be true: show us why it shouldn’t be legal. What is so special about a park?

Trying to grasp for a “need” to exercise a Constitutionally-guaranteed right is the wrong approach and only festers a sense of government enpowerment at the expense of the liberty of the citizenry.

As for urban areas, yes, those places rarely see dangerous activity or violent crime.

As far as concealed carry on private property (The Oklahoma City Memorial for example), it is legal unless signs are posted otherwise. I have my concealed carry and usually leave the weapon in my vehicle or motorcycle, but I always have to be thoughtful of having the weapon if I go through the Wichita Mountain Refuge. Presently, it is my understanding that it would be illegal to carry the loaded weapon through the refuge in your vehicle. Many states with concealed carry laws (Colorado for example) have many national parks and forests and it would be unreasonable to have to break the weapon down to go through a national park or forest. Most of these parks are hundreds of miles away for us Oklahomans. So we have to travel on interstates to get there. I feel more vulnerable on the interstate than I do a national park, but what do I do with the weapon once I’m off the interstate? So the new law would just be convenient if nothing else. With the rise of animal attacks (not only bears and mountain lions, but also coyotes and bobcats, etc.) I would feel safer to hike or travel in the larger national parks or forests. As a concealed carry owner its not about my need to carry the weapon but my right to carry it.

Doug, there are currently no restrictions on carrying weapons in nat’l forests or wildlife refuges, as neither are administered by the NPS. As for private property, it is not illegal to carry even if it is posted, all they can do is ask you to leave.

VETO VETO VETO!! This is Exhibit A as to why Tom Coburn should be voted out next election. A ridiculous amendment to an unrelated bill…a bill that would otherwise offer excellent and historic consumer protection. I hope the president vetoes this abortion of legislation.

It is the same method used by zelot liberals to cram socialism down our throats, Kevin. as for the credit card bill, it transfers the onus on those that dont pay to those that pay their bils on time, so i think the bill itself is a shame. Urban areas are safe? Shootings at restaurants, schools, malls, parks, etc, i think not so safe. Call a cop? Sure , if the shooter will only wait for them to arrive before firing. If congress was full of Tom Coburn’s we would all be so much better off, he strives to maintain our personal freedoms for us and to stop run-away spending, pork, etc. The Bill of Rights was added to the constitution to protect the INDIVIDUALS right’s from and oppressive gov’s attempt to subdue us. The 2nd gives us each the right to bear arms, and it doesn’t say there must be a compelling reason for us to do so. Steve, you have a right to not bear arms, but that doesn’t give you the right to take our arms from us. Instead of going after the law-abiding citizens, push for more-stricter laws on gun totting crooks, lets lock them away for a long long time!

The first time someone knocks down a grizzly in yellowstone with 2 clips from a .45 we are going to hear libs screaming there arses off. I am going to use bear spray in my left hand and if that dosent work then ill level the animal with my .45 in my right. I think we should make an effort to repel the animal with other means. As it stands I think there is some big time pealties for discharging a firearm into an animal or even warning shots in national parks. This needs to be clarified.

So if attacked shoot the nearest lib so the bear will eat him and not you. Just be sure to find the bullet in the bear poo and burry it.

I’m a US citizen that pays his taxes, pays his debts, and obey the laws of the land. I also support the United States Cnstitution as it stands. It wasn’t written to be a list of suggestions subject to modification based on some special interest because they don’t see it that way. If we keep eroding the ownership/carry rights of law abiding citizens we have forsaken the crafters of the Constitution. A law abiding citizen didn’t shoot James Brady. I’m sorry a wacko shot him. Gun control laws are not going to stop people like this or gang bangers from obtaining and illegally using guns. Sara, I’m sorry but get over it. As cold as this sounds your husband was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was hanging around a target and an idiot was nearby with a plan. Does anyone truly think that fighting to take away Second Amendment gun owner/carrier rights is going to keep Donnell from doing a drive-by on Jerrome cause Jerrome be hittin’ on Donnel’s girlfriend Kenisha? This bill’s rider was to allow law abiding citizens to carry firemarms in National Parks with the proper permits. They don’t just give out these permits cause you wearin’ the right gang colors. I fly fish in Yellowstone National Park and would feel more comfortable having a sidearm in addition to my bear spray. Unfortunately this is uproar is not about firearms in NP’s. It’s about bleeding heart, tree hugging, gun grabbing, bed wetting, bugger eating cry baby liberals wanting to undermine the very principles this country was founded on. Before closing a little disclaimer is in order. I’m southern, have all my teeth, don’t have a confederate flag in my yard, have a tested 138 IQ, am not a current NRA member, drive a Prius and not a pick-up truck, and have no agenda but to reel in the nauseating liberalism that’s killing this country. All of the above thoughts represent my personal opinion guaranteed me by the same Constitution the bed wetters are trying to destroy. Enough (probably more than enough) said.

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