Look at Timmy. Grinning like a possum eating s**t. Ain’t he proud. Can’t believe he’s got all his teeth. Bet he’s only got a third grade from RedNeck Elementary.

Remember, it’s not hunting, it’s ambushing! Any Moron can do that.

Judge is a moron who knows nothing about how that deer was harvested. He can riducule hunters all he wants but the reality is that the hunters are the true conservationists that put their hard earned dollars into wildlife conservation. Go ask Ducks Unlimited (DU), DU does nothing to advocate for hunters as their goal is to conserve waterfowl and their habits but 80% of all their funding comes directly from hunters. So Judge go pay your money to the HSUS, PETA and the other so called animal rights groups who do absolutely nothing for wildlife conservation! I for one will continue to be a hunter and true conservationist. And by the way, I have all my teeth and a college education!

The 2010 harvest was down and the reason will vary a great deal by locale. I talked to hunters in lots of areas of the US that just had a messed up Rut which probably affects the deer harvest more than anything.

I jumped on the problems with the 2010 harvesd as it was occurring because I didn’t want to see it again. In my particular locale, deer numbers were low and the buck doe ration is down to less than 1 doe per 3 bucks which is due to overharvest of does. I got with neighbors and found where the problems were coming from and have some committments to help restore the herd and balance with some “give and take”. I spent weeks gathering research and “mythbusting” to come up with a plan which has shown amazing results for growing bucks but will take a year or two to restore the doe population if everyone honors their part of the deal. As a backup to the ones that still plan to “if it’s brown it’s down” I’m working on attracting any does to the area that I can and will do all I can to keep them safe including turning in poachers as the Sheriff’s department said they will respond to any calls involving illegal activities including deer poaching.
This year there will be a general mast crop failure so if you want to attract deer to your land they are already looking for a good home and with the drought, wildlife in general is looking for food sources.

One thing the I found that cause the rut to go nocturnal in 2010 was the doe hunting pressure. Year after year as I have watched areas open up to doe harvest, the first thing that happens is that it causes the does to get “nocturnal” when a doe in estrous beds down in the daytime, the buck will not leave her side even if you walk up on them. You won’t see many deer during “nocturnal ruts” and this will happen anywhere there is significant hunting pressure. There were only a few mornings where the weather was right to see a buck chase a doe just before sunrise in areas where does were hunted last fall.

Over 90% of the deer harvest in Oklahoma is on private land so if you want a better hunt, it may just be up to you. Some open country is more prone to nocturnal rut anyway but as soon as the “doe popping” starts, they get nocturnal and so does the rut. For those with larger hunting areas that they can control, just try it, don’t shoot any does until after December 1 and you will see a huge difference in daytime activity. If there are as many does as the insurance companies want you to believe, you will have plenty of time to kill does after you have enjoyed an old fashioned deer hunt with bucks chasing does in the day time. You don’t have to take my word for it if you have a lease or private land, you can prove it. Doe hunting has almost ruined the fun of hunting during the peak rut where bucks chase does all day long.

If you want a better deer hunt this year, don’t harvest any does until after the peak rut. Most parts of the state have 35 doe days just for rifle and primitive so there is plenty of time if you need to harvest a doe. If you don’t have at least a 1:1 ratio of bucks and does or if you just don’t have many deer, you might think about restoring your herd by letting her try to raise a fawn. Some areas have been overharvested…period.

What gets me is that some people that call themselves deerhunters will shoot a doe and waste the meat just to be able to say they got a deer. I know it’s against the law but you still see them dumped and left behind just the same. The other element that is out of hand in many parts of oklahoma is the spotlighters. Just because there are huge either sex limits statewide, they think they can use any method they like to kill deer that others enjoy harvesitng legally and they can ruin the season for you or endanger you and your family in the process. Any way you can safely help get them caught is good.
IN Most areas it is difficult to get a game warden (because they are spread pretty thin, especially if a deer season is in progress,) while the spotlighters are in action but local sheriff departments may work with you to catch the perps. I don’t know about other areas of Oklahoma but E. Oklahoma has had a serious poacher problem for some time.
Just a few years ago a guy hunting on my neighbor’s land would make a round with a spotlight every morning and messing up my hunting across the fence, I talked with the landowner and the hunter and both responded angrily at me for even mentioning it. I then moved to public land the next day on the navigation channel (since I was using my vacation time for deer season) and as I’m walking across the field to my hunting spot, I run into a ford pickup spotlighting the land next to the public land which really makes your hopes for seeing a nice buck plummet.
I considered “tuning my deer rifle” well enough to put out the lights they were using but of course decided against that because it is dangerous as well. I have tried calling game wardens as the spotlighting is occurring but always get voice mail which does nothing to catch the spotlighters. One of my neighbors had 5 does dumped in a gate to one of his fields 2 years ago and I’m tired of the poachers. The most promising thing this year is that the local Sheriff’s department said they will respond to calls about poachers so maybe if they can nail a couple it will discourage others.

Just a further comment based on tens of thousands of game cam photos. The does do not like feeding the same time as the bucks and try to avoid the bucks most of the year. Bucks are more reclusive except during the rut and are more likely to be nocturnal anyway.
The does will feed in the daytime if left alone , just to avoid mingling with the bucks. In a natural rut, the bucks will move to the day shift to find does, when you start shooting does, not only are there less does to keep the bucks active, the does go to “night shift” too which pretty much leave you without anything to keep you occupied during those hours in the field. All I’m asking is that people NOT take anyone’s word for it, TRY it. I think you will find you and all your neighbors will have a more enjoyable season watching bucks chase does in daylight hours and maybe, just maybe getting that old big “ghost buck” that you have seen on the cuddyback but never comes out in daytime.

There’s nothing more exciting than to see a doe or does darting through the trees and catching that first glimpse of “nothing but horns” following behind. Or, you can shoot the does and bucky will sleep all day like the does that survive. This is based on 40 years of observations.
Sure there will still be times when deer just won’t move for any reason, but for those that haven’t experienced a “peak rut” you simply don’t know what you are missing.

Wow Andy, interesting theory. The Wildelife Department has never addressed a “nocturnal Rut”. Nor am I aware of any scientific studies related to such a theory. I do not hunt in eastern Oklahoma so I can not speak to what is happenig down there, but in Norhtern Oklahoma the rut is on as usual. Bucks chase does at all hours and we still have a surplus of does, even with the most liberal doe days in the state. If deer season is open it is a doe day. I myself only will shoot a doe with my bow and I let all does walk during primitive and gun season. I don’t want to shoot a doe and scare off a big buck.

I know overall our deer herd has increased substantially in Oklahoma over the last couple of decades. Hence the record setting harvests that have occured. Keep in mind that last years numbers may have been down a bit but there were still well over 100K deer harvested! We are experiencing the best hunting Oklahoma has seen since before statehood. I sure would like to see a study done on how harvesting does affects daytime movement during the rut though. If you get any good data on the issue please post it.

Yeah, William, I realize there are areas of the state and even in my area where the population is out of balance in favor of does. Most of this area was at one time however years of heavy hunting pressure, poaching and overgrazed habitat by livestock almost wiped out the deer here and in my localized area, a large landowner that has crops in another area was getting lots of DMAP permits and giving them to folks to use next door to me. That should all be changed this year and we have a new lessee next door that likes to hunt and doesn’t mind some management. I got through with 3 of the 4 does that lived in my 1 mile stretch of timber (one was whacked during the last doe season).
I had a remarkable thing happen after the season and because I had feeders out had a significant group of yearling bucks take up residence in December. I was able to get thousands of photographs and experiment with another nutrition theory that has blown me away.

All the yearlings were small spikes or small (thin) forked horns. I in the soils.

My theory is that poor soils produce poor vegetation, poor vegetation produces poor nutrition and poor nutrition produces poor antler characteristics.

I monitored the bachelor group since December w/usually 400-1000 photos per week. I planted cowpeas for protein, fertilized the area and used a Calcium / Phosphorus mineral supplement beneath 5 free choice corn feeders. The goal was to maintain mineral stores and body condition as high as possible through both late winter/early spring and summer stress periods. The result was a group of nice 8-10 point bucks that most would mistake for three year olds. There is one three year old and he is a beautiful 9 point.
I’m convinced that any area could be assessed in a way that it could begin producing trophy deer within 2 years if any bucks are left after the first season. A moderate knowlege of soils in the area and a willingness to correct deficiencies with habitat improvement , fertilization and lime or supplements would be required to transform any property and my suggestion would probably a combination of the above depending on the situation. I have hunted the area for over 40 years and know that the native range will not produce bucks of this quality in good years , much less drought years as we had this year. One thing the drought did was move more deer to my managed area and the latecomers are typical bucks with stunted racks that are found in areas that don’t have access to high quality crops or high Calcium/Phosphorus soils.
If you are in an area where corn/soybeans/wheat are abundant and soils are not lacking in essential minerals, you probably don’t need to do anything except let the animals get older and you will have trophy deer. I’m excited and have thousands of photos to cover every stage of the transition of this group of small malnourishe yearlings into shooters and if I can keep some another year into trophies. It has been fun.
The “nocturnal rut” is dependent on hunting pressure and anyone that has large areas that aren’t hunted heavily probably could disregard the nocturnal effect of doe hunting altogether. If they are in an area where most of the deer in the area will encounter hunter traffic, the nocturnal effect is proportional to hunting pressure.

In the old days when I hunted Gruber/Cherokee along with hundreds of other hunters, we would see lots of deer opening day and after that nothing for the rest of the season. In the days when public land was the only place I had to hunt, i had hunted 20 years before I ever saw a buch chase a doe. The last 20 years I’ve had the opportunity to hunt some land with low hunting pressure but even there, when the doe hunting started, no daytime rut. I also watched the same effect on some of the “special hunt areas” as long as no doe hunts were allowed, the does and the rut were comfortable in the daylight hours, as soon as doe hunts were allowed, it stops. Weather can still cause a nocturnal rut but that will change when the weather does. When it is caused by doe hunts, even a weather change won’t help.

My hunting area is very rich agricultural land and within a mile of me there is Soy Beans, Corn, Wheat, Milo, Sunflowers and a ton of good pasture lands. We are fortunate to have harvested many Cy Curtis bucks and a couple Boone and Crocket bucks in the last three seasons. Our neighbor to the north of us has done equally as well. We do not allow any small bucks to be taken unless it is by a juvenile hunter being introduced to the sport and that is strictly controlled as well. We do allow does to be harvested but once again those harvests are strictly controlled as well.

Good luck to you on your management plan. I know we are lucky in our area. If we can keep the poaching down and control the harvest of small bucks then we should have trophy deer each and every season to come.

William, as you expressed in your post the effect of doe hunting pressure is not an often considered factor in buck hunting but…it has long been known that hunting pressure affects bucks behavior. My observations are that the same thing occurs when does are hunted. Here is something from experts that most people prefer. What is illogical is for anyone to assume that hunting pressure does not affect all deer behavior.

Here are some comments and link:
Many hunters believe the more a deer sees or smells humans, the less likely that the animal will appear in the woods during daylight hours. However, Bob Foulkrod, a nationally-known bowhunter from Troy, Pennsylvania, believes the intent of the human helps determine the fear factor of the buck. “If a buck is in a non-pressure situation where he sees hikers, blueberry pickers or photographers during the summer months, he may run on first sighting the human before turning to see if he’s being pursued,” Foulkrod mentions. “When he realizes he isn’t being chased or shot at, then he can take a lot of human pressure. But after hunting season opens, and the bucks know that every time they come in contact with humans they’ll be pursued, only a little pressure will put a buck into his nocturnal state, especially if he’s a 2-1/2 or a 3-1/2-year-old deer.”

Dr. Keith Causey, a retired professor of wildlife science from Auburn University in Auburn, Alabama, agrees with Foulkrod as he states that, “Since deer are individuals, determining how much hunting pressure one deer can withstand and using that information to draw a conclusion about all deer is impossible. However, from the harvest data I’ve seen, when a buck is 3-years old or older and experiences intense hunting pressure, then he becomes reclusive in his behavior and almost impossible to harvest legally because of his nocturnal activity.”

http://98.130.61.49/journal/2008/52/journal_1.htm

Can you find situations where deer are so numerous it makes no difference or refuges where human activity is highly regulated, sure. Unfortunately I have to hunt private land with high hunting pressure. When the doe hunters come , all deer disappear. Always.
In an area that only allows restricted harvest and limits hunters, all bets are off but unfortunately, most deer behavior studies are done in exactly such places because it is easy to find deer. Those studies are worthless to most hunters although most do rely heavily on them and spend their dollars based on them. Too bad.

William, your description of your hunting area describes a ready made production area for trophy bucks, good luck controlling poachers. There is a Noble foundation study that placed poaching of bucks at almost 20% and that was on a refuge. In open country and private land it is worse. I’ve already had one buck show up on trail cams with a hole shot in his brisket.
What many don’t know is that most Sheriff’s departments will respond to poaching calls. Most think they have to have a game warden which is hard to get but our Sheriff dept. said they will respond to ANY illegal activity.

Well the 2011 season is in the books and after considerable “lobbying” my neighbors, I got a reprieve on the doe hunting before the rut. It was amazing and due to the QDM agreements we got to watch many chases and pass up the little guys. The rut lasted longer in our area due to the drought that left lots of lactating does in poor condition and caused them to cycle late and presumably more than once based on some of the photos of does that migrated in during the rut.
I am expanding the nutritional supplement area this year and after the documentation that I passed to the other landowners this year (not to mention some of them shot the big bucks I grew while the drought produced scrubs most other local areas)at least some of them may take steps to improve nutrition. As usual you have the ones that don’t want to put anything back but are hanging out on the other side of the fence, sometimes with a spotlight to harvest your trophy but that’s life in Oklahoma. At any rate, any time the wind would die down at dusk or dawn (especially during rifle season), whenever you saw a doe this year, it would only be minutes before one or more bucks would show up and the chase was on. This was my most exciting deer hunt in decades.
One evening as it was getting dark we had three chases within 50 yards going on at the same time.
While most of the soils in my local area are very poor and there is not agricultural activity to provide protein/calcium/phosphorus sources I am gradually searching through soil surveys locating areas that could grow trophy bucks with minimal nutrient management.
Most areas of Camp Gruber/Cherokee PHA could grow trophy bucks due to the prevalence of a weathered limestone soil that occurs frequently throughout the layers of flint rock usually around all the steep banks bordering the valleys. This would mean that the area would likely be capable of producing numerous trophy bucks with minimal management which would be nice to include “point limits” to allow aging and some fertilization in the “edge” zones but isn’t likely going to happen. I’d love to see in my lifetime what could happen in an area like Gruber/Cherokee with fertilization of native browse and QDM practices. I’d bet on some boone and crockett brutes within a few years.

The low fertility and pH is the main limiting factor in this entire area of over 50,000 acres.
The area often produces nice bucks in the 2 1/2 year old class in spite of the deficient nutrients needed to close the deal on a real trophy. Plus hunting pressure is enough to limit the age although hunting pressure seems less of a factor each year.
Since it’s probably a waste of time to put feeders or mineral supplements on public land because someone else would certainly locate them and be the beneficiary and habitat improvement programs do not include fertility management on the areas, Fertilizing some of the native vegetation in your “sweet spot” would likely be unnoticed by other hunters (long as it was out of sight of main roads) but would get the attention of the deer in the area. I’ve noticed that bucks have dominance over does for prime food sources so you’d likely have several good bucks using your “invisible” deer haven by fall. I did the soil survey on several spots on Gruber/Cherokee and there is only the low fertility to keep from growing major bucks there. The most benefit would come from applying a complete fertilizer around the edges of fields and along old roads and trails that deer use for feeding areas.
Try the fertilizer in the edge feeding areas and not only will you notice the browse is more productive, you will see more deer using the browse as they prefer the fertilized vegetation. Browse like honeysuckle, sumac, poison ivy and blackberries can reach protein levels with fertilization of 15% and nobody knows but you and the deer.
The burned areas are often attractive because of the new vegetation but will still be nutrient deficient from these soils.

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