Comments on: Are There Other Options?

By: MikeN

MikeN — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:20:31 +0000

Friends for a Better Boulevard your TV interview was so poorly done I doubt you convinced anybody to your point of view. Get a proper spokesperson who looks presentable and can speak eloquently, the three men on TV failed badly on both points.

Steve keep after Wengner and city officials. Wegner is really not nearly as smart as he and sadly too many others believe.

By: Larry OKC

Larry OKC — Mon, 30 Jul 2012 17:44:28 +0000

I have been asking the NEED for the Boulevard for a few years now. Don’t get any answer back from the Mayor or City Manager’s office about it, as far they are concerned the need for the Boulevard is a “given”. The Mayor has publicly stated that without the Boulevard, downtown “grinds to a halt”. Yet we somehow managed to do without it for 100 years?

While I am 1000% opposed to the elevated ODOT design, I am not a fan circular obstructions in the roadway, no matter what they are called or designed. Supposedly they are safer now than back then (the City said the reason they removed them was because of safety, but then when they started putting them back in, they were somehow safer due to “advancements in technology”. Technology??? Its a freakin’ circle. But just like the “given” of the Boulevard, the folks at City Hall are saying that the circles they have been put in haven’t been a problem. Have yet to see any factual numbers HERE to support the claim. What were traffic counts before/after? Accident, before/after? Etc etc.

All of that said, I am glad that other at grade possibilities are at least being thought about. And so proud that MY council person is Ed Shadid!

By: Steve Lackmeyer

Steve Lackmeyer — Mon, 30 Jul 2012 04:06:34 +0000

Philip, great to hear from you again! As you can tell, this is probably one of the more intriguing urban design stories I've encountered in quite some time. No telling how it will end. For those who don't know, Philip has decades of experience in writing about urbanism and architecture, and I'm always flattered when this former executive editor of Southern Living checks in here at OKC Central. To learn more about a writer I hold in great esteem, visit here.

By: philip morris

philip morris — Mon, 30 Jul 2012 01:58:21 +0000

When the Embarcadero Freeway spur from the Bay Bridge into downtown San Francisco was damaged by an earthquake and was removed, predictions of a huge traffic problem failed to materialize. The traffic got off earlier and dispersed into the downtown grid. DOT types don’t understand how effective local street grids are in absorbing and dispersing traffic. There are traffic engineers involved in new urbanism that do. May need to find one like the Hall firm in Tallahassee to help.

By: Eric

Eric — Sun, 29 Jul 2012 04:37:44 +0000

Maybe I have missed something, but it seems that the good ol’ mayor seems oddly quiet in this discussion. I don’t trust him.

By: Ed Shadid

Ed Shadid — Sun, 29 Jul 2012 04:22:28 +0000

The short answer is yes; there are a multitude of at-grade options. One could use a roundabout, a double roundabout, slip lanes, synchronized signalized intersections or a combination of any of the above. The Boulevard could just run into Reno and we could widen and further develop Reno. California could be an additional potential entrance. The connection between the Fairgrounds and downtown on Pershing Blvd’s conversion to Main is underutilized. There are a few others. An objective and well-designed assessment of these at-grade alternatives is needed before we can make informed choices respectful of the decades of consequences which will stem from those decisions. The lowest common-denominator across a wide range of interests would seem to be avoiding an elevated urban expressway in the place of the old I-40.

By: Wylie H.

Wylie H. — Sun, 29 Jul 2012 01:48:27 +0000

I would add another concern to the list:

By providing phony data (the unsupported 94,000 traffic count number) and disguising opinions as fact, ODOT is making it extremely difficult to have an informed discussion on the matter. As a result, the City may be forced to hire outside consultants to provide impartial traffic planning and engineering services– things taxpayers should be entitled to from ODOT.

By: Michael Carpenter

Michael Carpenter — Sun, 29 Jul 2012 00:27:37 +0000

The Classen Circle was dangerous and poorly designed. It led the state in fatality accidents. David Hall made it an issue in his successful campaign for givernor.

But the difference between the Classen Circle and a roundabout is that on the Classen Circle, traffic already in the circle was required to yield to traffic trying to enter the circle, while on a roundabout, traffic trying to enter is expected to yield.

But it had not occurred to me to question whether we need a boulevard at all. That’s a worthwhile question, I think.