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	<title>Comments on: A Close Look at the Civic Center Spinner Tower</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/02/04/a-close-look-at-the-civic-center-spinner-tower/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/02/04/a-close-look-at-the-civic-center-spinner-tower/</link>
	<description>The Oklahoman&#039;s Steve Lackmeyer covers downtown OKC brick by brick.</description>
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		<title>By: Larry OKC</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/02/04/a-close-look-at-the-civic-center-spinner-tower/comment-page-1/#comment-41329</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry OKC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=7127#comment-41329</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE: urgency question ( http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-civic-center-park-makeover-challenged/article/3642367#ixzz1lo9juwYy)

Laura Story, a former assistant city engineer who now works as a private consultant for the project, repeatedly pleaded with the committee to approve the project design and let construction begin. … Story said that delay could jeopardize efforts to have the park makeover completed for a potential Sept. 25 celebration of the Civic Center&#039;s 75th anniversary. ... A major redesign, she warned, could result in construction bids expiring and park completion being delayed. That could complicate the city&#039;s efforts to complete reconstruction of adjoining streets. “It&#039;s not just the park that&#039;s at stake here — it&#039;s Project 180,” she said. “There are significant construction issues related to this.” 

Reminds me of the saying: &quot;Lack of planning on your part doesn&#039;t constitute an emergency on my part.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: urgency question ( <a href="http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-civic-center-park-makeover-challenged/article/3642367#ixzz1lo9juwYy" rel="nofollow">http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-civic-center-park-makeover-challenged/article/3642367#ixzz1lo9juwYy</a>)</p>
<p>Laura Story, a former assistant city engineer who now works as a private consultant for the project, repeatedly pleaded with the committee to approve the project design and let construction begin. … Story said that delay could jeopardize efforts to have the park makeover completed for a potential Sept. 25 celebration of the Civic Center&#8217;s 75th anniversary. &#8230; A major redesign, she warned, could result in construction bids expiring and park completion being delayed. That could complicate the city&#8217;s efforts to complete reconstruction of adjoining streets. “It&#8217;s not just the park that&#8217;s at stake here — it&#8217;s Project 180,” she said. “There are significant construction issues related to this.” </p>
<p>Reminds me of the saying: &#8220;Lack of planning on your part doesn&#8217;t constitute an emergency on my part.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Larry OKC</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/02/04/a-close-look-at-the-civic-center-spinner-tower/comment-page-1/#comment-41327</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry OKC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=7127#comment-41327</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That looks really sad all by itself. Definitely looks better in a series but I still think it is out of place for tis particular location]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That looks really sad all by itself. Definitely looks better in a series but I still think it is out of place for tis particular location</p>
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		<title>By: slackmeyer</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/02/04/a-close-look-at-the-civic-center-spinner-tower/comment-page-1/#comment-41274</link>
		<dc:creator>slackmeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 19:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=7127#comment-41274</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Spencer, we&#039;re totally cool. I&#039;m not sure the person you spoke to who is &quot;within the process&quot; has been totally forthright with you. I&#039;m totally unaware of any opportunity for these final renderings to be reviewed or scrutinized by the public until they were submitted to the Devon Implementation Committee a couple weeks before they arrived at the Downtown Design Review Committee.
It was my experience at the early review meetings that they were hosted by Rand Elliott, that he led the discussions, and most of the presentations were done by Elliott, not by PDG.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spencer, we&#8217;re totally cool. I&#8217;m not sure the person you spoke to who is &#8220;within the process&#8221; has been totally forthright with you. I&#8217;m totally unaware of any opportunity for these final renderings to be reviewed or scrutinized by the public until they were submitted to the Devon Implementation Committee a couple weeks before they arrived at the Downtown Design Review Committee.<br />
It was my experience at the early review meetings that they were hosted by Rand Elliott, that he led the discussions, and most of the presentations were done by Elliott, not by PDG.</p>
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		<title>By: GenghisKDuck</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/02/04/a-close-look-at-the-civic-center-spinner-tower/comment-page-1/#comment-41271</link>
		<dc:creator>GenghisKDuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 17:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=7127#comment-41271</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;---still confused about what the connection was with the
Minnesota shopping thing]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&lt;&#8212;still confused about what the connection was with the<br />
Minnesota shopping thing</p>
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		<title>By: Spencer</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/02/04/a-close-look-at-the-civic-center-spinner-tower/comment-page-1/#comment-41270</link>
		<dc:creator>Spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=7127#comment-41270</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To Craig:
First of all, I wasn&#039;t trying to vilify anyone.  My original comment had to do with my initial reactions  to the blog post and I believe Mr. Humphreys gave more detailed information to back up his comments which I acknowledged and thanked him for.  It is not my intent to be a defender, I just want to make sure we are asking the right questions to the right people.  Mr. Humphreys&#039; comments had some pretty serious accusations in them and if you are going to present comments like that I believe one should give more information to back them up or they become more incendiary toward the conversation than helpful.  Once again, I appreciate his elaboration on his initial comments. 

Which brings me to Mr. Lackmeyer:  
I was not saying that you have hid PDGs involvement.  But many of the concerns presented by Mr. Humphreys and others were directed at things not really controlled by Mr. Elliot; ergo I wanted to make the point in the conversation so those who may be looking to get these questions answered could have another avenue to communicate their concern.  

Also, I have no stamped evidence of a six month period.  After a few polite phone calls a person within the process said meetings started at least six months ago.  They did not comment on if they were open to the public, or who was involved; only citing the presence of &quot;city members.&quot;  That could probably mean city officials, city citizens, or even city business that may be involved with construction.  Not being trained as a reporter, and not wanting to sound intrusive, I didn&#039;t press for specifics.  

And Dennis:  The &quot;spinning towers&quot; have &quot;five vertically mounted panels that spin in the breeze.&quot;  I&#039;m sorry for not being more specific in my description of the towers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Craig:<br />
First of all, I wasn&#8217;t trying to vilify anyone.  My original comment had to do with my initial reactions  to the blog post and I believe Mr. Humphreys gave more detailed information to back up his comments which I acknowledged and thanked him for.  It is not my intent to be a defender, I just want to make sure we are asking the right questions to the right people.  Mr. Humphreys&#8217; comments had some pretty serious accusations in them and if you are going to present comments like that I believe one should give more information to back them up or they become more incendiary toward the conversation than helpful.  Once again, I appreciate his elaboration on his initial comments. </p>
<p>Which brings me to Mr. Lackmeyer:<br />
I was not saying that you have hid PDGs involvement.  But many of the concerns presented by Mr. Humphreys and others were directed at things not really controlled by Mr. Elliot; ergo I wanted to make the point in the conversation so those who may be looking to get these questions answered could have another avenue to communicate their concern.  </p>
<p>Also, I have no stamped evidence of a six month period.  After a few polite phone calls a person within the process said meetings started at least six months ago.  They did not comment on if they were open to the public, or who was involved; only citing the presence of &#8220;city members.&#8221;  That could probably mean city officials, city citizens, or even city business that may be involved with construction.  Not being trained as a reporter, and not wanting to sound intrusive, I didn&#8217;t press for specifics.  </p>
<p>And Dennis:  The &#8220;spinning towers&#8221; have &#8220;five vertically mounted panels that spin in the breeze.&#8221;  I&#8217;m sorry for not being more specific in my description of the towers.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/02/04/a-close-look-at-the-civic-center-spinner-tower/comment-page-1/#comment-41264</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 14:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=7127#comment-41264</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Spencer &amp; Mike,

I don&#039;t know what catagory I fit in, I&#039;m 45, but I find it strange that the person being vilified(Blair), is the one responding, trying to clear up ANY confusion, yet the person you are defending has yet to respond to some legitimate questions. Does that speak more for the &quot;oldsters&quot; catagory or your college son&#039;s group?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spencer &amp; Mike,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what catagory I fit in, I&#8217;m 45, but I find it strange that the person being vilified(Blair), is the one responding, trying to clear up ANY confusion, yet the person you are defending has yet to respond to some legitimate questions. Does that speak more for the &#8220;oldsters&#8221; catagory or your college son&#8217;s group?</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Brzycki</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/02/04/a-close-look-at-the-civic-center-spinner-tower/comment-page-1/#comment-41263</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Brzycki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 14:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=7127#comment-41263</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Looking at the PDG website, I can&#039;t see any evidence of urban park experience other than the Muskogee Civic Center, if you want to count that.  If there is something I have missed, I would appreciate someone pointing it out.

From what I understand, the selection of Rand was due to his original involvement in the Civic Center long before Project 180 came along.  So, they kept him involved and brought in PDG as they had helped the City with the OKC Tennis Center redo and some spray parks.  If both these firms submitted resumes in a truly open, objective competition for this work, I doubt either would have been given serious consideration.

This entire process seems strange and political; completely opposite of how the home-run Myriad Gardens project was handled.

I would also add it seems to be a rather silly use of what is now limited Project 180 funds.  They have cut over 40% of their scope due to cost overruns and are now throwing away monuments, a historical fountain and the biggest trees downtown to spend millions on a design that is very suspect.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looking at the PDG website, I can&#8217;t see any evidence of urban park experience other than the Muskogee Civic Center, if you want to count that.  If there is something I have missed, I would appreciate someone pointing it out.</p>
<p>From what I understand, the selection of Rand was due to his original involvement in the Civic Center long before Project 180 came along.  So, they kept him involved and brought in PDG as they had helped the City with the OKC Tennis Center redo and some spray parks.  If both these firms submitted resumes in a truly open, objective competition for this work, I doubt either would have been given serious consideration.</p>
<p>This entire process seems strange and political; completely opposite of how the home-run Myriad Gardens project was handled.</p>
<p>I would also add it seems to be a rather silly use of what is now limited Project 180 funds.  They have cut over 40% of their scope due to cost overruns and are now throwing away monuments, a historical fountain and the biggest trees downtown to spend millions on a design that is very suspect.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Wells</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/02/04/a-close-look-at-the-civic-center-spinner-tower/comment-page-1/#comment-41259</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Wells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 11:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=7127#comment-41259</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The “spinning towers” do not spin.  They each have five vertically mounted panels that spin in the breeze. Each of these five panels is composed of dichroic material that reflects light in amazing, changing colors.  Special lighting will be mounted in each tower to maximize the effect of the dichroic material.  The line of these towers will be a MAGICAL sight, and create a needed connection between City Hall and the Civic Center.  Pedestrians can walk amongst and through the tower-line unimpeded.  It will be a phenomenal thing to behold!  The people will come.

I’m not knocking Blair’s passion or knowledge, however all of the wonderful parks he referenced are “Myriad-quality” spaces… multiple-function destination parks (many not nearly as open, and “safe” as the one he’s criticizing).  The Myriad Garden Park is just a short walk from this park!  The Civic Center Park occupies a different kind of space.  Is it wrong to have a different purpose?  

I think the new Civic Center Park design is good.  If completed as designed it will surely bless the covers of many magazines.  That said; what will these towers look like after the dulling effects of Oklahoma dust-blasting, and mud-raining, and years of improper maintenance?  Will jammed, dulled, or missing dichroic panels be replaced?  Will fritzed lighting be repaired?  We should fully support this design only if proper maintenance is assured.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The “spinning towers” do not spin.  They each have five vertically mounted panels that spin in the breeze. Each of these five panels is composed of dichroic material that reflects light in amazing, changing colors.  Special lighting will be mounted in each tower to maximize the effect of the dichroic material.  The line of these towers will be a MAGICAL sight, and create a needed connection between City Hall and the Civic Center.  Pedestrians can walk amongst and through the tower-line unimpeded.  It will be a phenomenal thing to behold!  The people will come.</p>
<p>I’m not knocking Blair’s passion or knowledge, however all of the wonderful parks he referenced are “Myriad-quality” spaces… multiple-function destination parks (many not nearly as open, and “safe” as the one he’s criticizing).  The Myriad Garden Park is just a short walk from this park!  The Civic Center Park occupies a different kind of space.  Is it wrong to have a different purpose?  </p>
<p>I think the new Civic Center Park design is good.  If completed as designed it will surely bless the covers of many magazines.  That said; what will these towers look like after the dulling effects of Oklahoma dust-blasting, and mud-raining, and years of improper maintenance?  Will jammed, dulled, or missing dichroic panels be replaced?  Will fritzed lighting be repaired?  We should fully support this design only if proper maintenance is assured.</p>
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		<title>By: slackmeyer</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/02/04/a-close-look-at-the-civic-center-spinner-tower/comment-page-1/#comment-41245</link>
		<dc:creator>slackmeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 02:32:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=7127#comment-41245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Spencer, I&#039;ve reported repeatedly on this blog and in my stories the designs were done by Elliott and PDG. I&#039;m curous as to what record you&#039;re referring to that goes back six months. If you have a record of this final design going through a meeting that was open to the public earlier than the Devon Implementation Committee in early January, please let me know. If you click on the renderings on the previous post they should pop up in higher resolution.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spencer, I&#8217;ve reported repeatedly on this blog and in my stories the designs were done by Elliott and PDG. I&#8217;m curous as to what record you&#8217;re referring to that goes back six months. If you have a record of this final design going through a meeting that was open to the public earlier than the Devon Implementation Committee in early January, please let me know. If you click on the renderings on the previous post they should pop up in higher resolution.</p>
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		<title>By: Spencer</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/02/04/a-close-look-at-the-civic-center-spinner-tower/comment-page-1/#comment-41242</link>
		<dc:creator>Spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 01:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=7127#comment-41242</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[After further investigation I&#039;ve discovered that it is actually a joint design.  Elliot and PDG in Tulsa (a landscape design company with what appears to be plenty of urban planning experience).  It seems as if Elliot was responsible for the one foot wide spinning towers and other aesthetics while PDG did the actual park design.  Perhaps these questions and criticisms should be direction in their general direction.

This design has been out for at least 6 months (at least that&#039;s the earliest record I can find of it) and went through what I had be plenty of meetings with elected officials to get there.  Perhaps they could provide a higher quality mock up of the actual design?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After further investigation I&#8217;ve discovered that it is actually a joint design.  Elliot and PDG in Tulsa (a landscape design company with what appears to be plenty of urban planning experience).  It seems as if Elliot was responsible for the one foot wide spinning towers and other aesthetics while PDG did the actual park design.  Perhaps these questions and criticisms should be direction in their general direction.</p>
<p>This design has been out for at least 6 months (at least that&#8217;s the earliest record I can find of it) and went through what I had be plenty of meetings with elected officials to get there.  Perhaps they could provide a higher quality mock up of the actual design?</p>
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