Comments on: A Dream Scenario Gone Bad

By: James Evans

James Evans — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 15:02:30 +0000

International hotspot!!!!

We do have a Bass Pro Shop AND a Toby Keith restaurant. That pulls them in from London, Tokyo, Rio de Janeiro, Paris, Mumbai, Moscow,…

By: Larry OKC

Larry OKC — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 14:30:31 +0000

Steve: I think generally there is a lot of confusion over Core to Shore and MAPS 3. As you correctly point out, there is overlap. FOr instance, the MAPS 3 Park is one of the major elements or “catalyst” of Core to Shore. While MAPS 3 is a 7.75 yr tax (10 to 12 yrs before completed). Core to Shore has been described as a several decades long endeavor. Something like 30 to 50 years IIRC.

By: Doug Loudenback

Doug Loudenback — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 13:24:04 +0000

I’m not going to reach any ultimate conclusions with this comment … it is intended to be more reflective than conclusionary …

Largely, many of the comments in this thread seem to complain about Oklahoma City leadership and big money interests getting served. I’m not going to comment on the latter but I will instead reflect upon …

1) What if Ron Norick had not been mayor but someone else was. Would that have impacted Oklahoma City’s development, as we know it?

2) What if Kirk Humphreys had not been elected mayor. Would we have an NBA arena, or any other for that matter?

3) What if Mick Cornett have not been elected mayor? We we have a revamped arena and an NBA team, and, as well, MAPS 3?

I’m not above criticizing our elected and non-elected leaders, as most of you probably know. But leadership is and has been essential, I think, for Oklahoma City to walk beyond the dark days prior to MAPS 1. The discussion going on here is not black or white or one-size fits all. It ain’t nearly so simple a thing.

By: Larry Also

Larry Also — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 06:25:38 +0000

So now you think we’re trying to be an “international hotspot” because of Core to Shore. LOL
Most people think the concept is for citizens of OKC. But conspiracy theories abound so what do I know.

By: MikeN

MikeN — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 04:49:51 +0000

Core to Shore is another debacle that needs to stop right here and not continue until the citizens get honest and forthright answers as to what it is and what it will be. Also the lies we were fleeced with about the movement of the power substation. That has insider dealing aka corruption written all over it.I see it as another boondoggle. We are not now nor ever will be an “International Hotspot” PUHLEEZE.

By: JeffreyC

JeffreyC — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 21:56:21 +0000

Many don’t like the look of Hogan’s lower brictown, but I think that the concept and the Mix is certainly better or “more right” than “Block E”. Retail(little bit by sonic + Bass pro), entertainment, Restaurant, corporate, residential, hotel. That mix + the arena and the ACM has managed to keep people in the area and parking lots full on weekends. And though they’ve had a few businesses go out,it’s performed much better than Block E, which must be a ghost town now.

So argue if you want about the look of lower bricktown, but the approach seems to still be working. And keep in mind that today’s lower Bricktown certainly wasn’t what we thought it would be initially. I think Hogan had to go back and start from scratch. It’s tough to build the concept exactly as it was envisioned – too many variables and too much unknown.

By: Matt

Matt — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 20:03:22 +0000

Maturity is running rampant.

No! Randy Hogan’s development belongs in suburbia, not Bricktown. C2S needs to be pedestrian driven. Lower Bricktown, while it works, wastes a ton of space on parking. If that is the model for C2S, it will be embarassing.

By: James Evans

James Evans — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 18:43:28 +0000

Yes!!! No criticisms of the Mayor, please. Either say something nice about the power elite that run the city or don’t say anything at all. This is a Daily Oklahoman blog for goodness sakes.

By: slackmeyer

slackmeyer — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 16:43:31 +0000

The way this conversation has turned has me a bit surprised but also wondering if the public sees MAPS 3 and Core to Shore as the same thing. And if so, how does that shade views of the two initiatives, which while they overlap, are very different and separate propositions?
Mike N., I’m going to politely ask that we move on from criticisms of the mayor, council, and perceived agendas, which have now been voiced pretty clear in this thread. One thing I’m picking up from those who are answering my original question is the devil is truly in the details on any efforts to develop Core to Shore; that development that is too dense, too compact, might not be the panacea some may envision. So did Randy Hogan get it right with how he developed Lower Bricktown? Should that be the model for Core to Shore?

By: Larry OKC

Larry OKC — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 16:19:12 +0000

Not a hater here as I love my City, always have always will. It is where I was born, where I live and where I will probably die. (I live across the street from the hospital where I was born). While it may be premature to deem MAPS 3 a failure, it isn’t off to a very good start. Consider the following:

• Trails: a $40 million “mistake” was made resulting in 60 miles worth left undone after MAPS 3 is finished. If costs remain what they are or an alternative material found, we are only getting 30 something miles of Trails instead of the promised 57 (which was supposed to have “finished/virtually finished/all but finished” the Trails Master Plan).

• Senior Aquatic Centers: descriptions have been cut back to just 4 now (instead of the 4 or 5 mentioned during the campaign) and the Aquatics seems to have been dropped too (at least from all of the them).

• Transit: the intermodal Transit Hub that was supposed to have cost $10 million is now going to cost $120+ million. This is as much as the Streetcars themselves.

We ran into many of the same problems with the original MAPS and it was a success on many levels but, NONE of the original MAPS projects were built on time, on budget and as promised. The failure to do those 3 things were collectively described by our Mayors (Cornett, Humphreys and Norick) as “disaster”. Some came a lot closer than others (like the Arena & Fairgrounds). While they came closer by percentage of their respective budget it still amounted to millions more than sold to the voters. Some projects, ended up costing double. In the end MAPS 3 came in 47.75% more than what voters were told.

We must strive to learn from our mistakes (and those of others) and do our best not to repeat those mistakes. So far, I am not seeing that happen with MAPS 3. If history repeats itself and we we have the same 47.75% in cost over runs, the $777 million in MAPS 3 is going to cost another $371 million or over a Billion when it is all said and done. We are already well on our way to that amount.