Several conceptual plans for considering the streetcar through Deep Deuce exist and were discussed at several subcommittee meetings early this year.

Our recommendations are not through. Our route is not final.

The recommendations thus far to council directly relate to what consensus was formed at the time, being the main “Bricktown to Midtown Spine.”

I would say that the AA process, that has selected a prefered route, skirts Deep Deuce along 4th street. The chosen route by that committe however does not go directly through it as some of the subcommittee concepts do.

Going through Deep Deuce is critical to creating diverse ridership throughout all operational hours for the entire system by serving the densest of housing downtown.

But there will be some who are going to not like the solution as it will require thinking outside the box to directly serve it.

Steve:

The COTPA-sponsored Alternatives Analysis process has just spent a year looking not just at the core Midtown to Bricktown route but also a route towards the northwest to the Health Sciences Center.

This second route or line is in the AA Locally Preferred Alternative which is actually about to be presented to the COTPA board this morning: http://www.letstalktransit.com/Websites/letstalktransit/Images/Documents/AA/2011_May/OKC%20Circulator%20LPA%20Draft-6-1-11.pdf.

This route is a strong candidate for federal funding using the local match of the MAPS 3 streetcar funds. Leveraging the MAPS tax dollars is something Council very much wants to see and COTPA has been commendably focused on pursuing an FTA application due on September 30 this year.

If you dig further back into the materials at the AA’s LetsTalkTransit.com website you’ll see that there was a suggested option that served 2nd Street in addition to 4th Street through the Deep Deuce. I personally would have preferred that option but the AA Steering Committee did not select it based on cost.

There are very detailed and active plans for the streetcar to serve Deep Deuce.

It would be great if the streetcar went through Deep Deuce, but if the point is to spur development then maybe it doesn’t need to. DD is getting there on it’s own. If the point is to enhance quality of life, then how can it not go through DD?

Good information Mark and Jeff. As you’re probably aware, I’m reflecting questions asked over at OKC Talk. Thanks for all the difficult volunteer work you’ve done for the city!

Great news Jeff and Mark!

@Kilgore – yup, it isn’t there to provide TOD for the city. TOD is a handy byproduct. It is there to provide transit.

Steve I also remember back that far and beyond. I recall when the entire area from Sheridan north to 13th from Lincoln to Broadway was a filthy, drug infestd, shootouts every day and night, hell hole GHETTO.

I am glad to see that urban renewal actally worked and was beneficial to cleaning up a severly blighted area. I really laugh at anybody that waxes nostalgic about the area because it was a disgusting ghetto for many decades.

I think Mark was saying that Deep Deuce has been considered in the current, ongoing process.

However, exactly how directly it is to be served has still yet to be debated by the Maps 3 Transit Sub-Committee.

The two big questions still remain.

1. Is 4th street close enough (Particularly if the Native Roots Grocer becomes the Grocery Store for Downtown)

2. Does the intent and direction of the “Health Sciences Line” serve as an enticing, efficient way for Deep Deuce residents and hotel guests connect to the “Main Spine” and reach other parts of downtown.

These are things that will probably be debated further.

While I think it would be fine if the streetcar went through Deep Deuce, and it would certainly be convenient for me, I think people who believe it has to go directly through are missing one point about much of the population living there. This is something I pointed out early on in the process of determining a route.

People who live in Deep Deuce are walkers. An urban environment selects out people who aren’t married to their cars. I see groups of people living at the Maywood Lofts walking over to Deep Deuce presumably for dinner or over the Walnut Bridge into Bricktown. The same goes for people living in Deep Deuce. Someone I know who lived in Deep Deuce about five years ago (before I thought about living there) told me that the reason it appealed to her was because she didn’t have to use a car once she got home from work.

The streetcar will go south on Broadway. For people living in the Maywood Lofts, the Brownstones and LEVEL, Broadway is one to less than a block away. For people living in the Deep Deuce apartments, Central Ave. Villas or the Hill, they will have the option of walking over to Broadway or into Bricktown to pick up the streetcar. Block 42 is the only development that has a longer walk in either direction and even then it’s two and a half blocks to Broadway. For people who like to walk, those are negligible distances.

As Mark has mentioned, there is a route that would go through Deep Deuce were we able to obtain federal funding, so it may be that my above paragraphs are a moot point regardless.

I guess this route is just too simple to work.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/red_line.jpg

Oh I agree Jill. I lived there myself many years and relished the “walk-ability” of the place. Over the bridge and your in Bricktown and such.

Its more of the broader question of connecting the streetcar to “perimeter districts” while retaining a defined streetcar “spine” to the further est N/S points of downtown.

You know, the “Bricktown to Midtown” spine concept arose out of directly being challenged by Councilmen White and Bowman on how to “stretch the system” and subsequently enable the streetcar to easily reach out of downtown.

Bricktown has always been an easy target and Midtown became rapidly justifiable as more and more has happened there. The consultant’s numbers back up the subcommittee’s general conclusions about that idea and enable us to easily follow through the wishes of the two councilmen.

That idea has even been furthered by the recent Hub Study findings which project possible extensions up Classen and NW Expressway which might be served by rail in the future. It is something that deserves even further evaluation and I feel that we have stayed true to our word to the City Councilmen who challenged us.

However, we have still yet addressed all of our route recommendations including the Deep Deuce area and how/if or how directly perimeter districts are touched by the MAPS streetcar.

That includes the far East and the far West sides of downtown. Film Row/Deep Deuce.

The fact that there is now going to be a grocery store in Deep Deuce propagates the further question of how directly it should be connected to people coming from other parts of downtown to it.

I guess I’m just alittle confused. I live in deep deuce and work at the health sciences center.

With that being said, is there in fact going to be a route that goes to the health center or is that still up in the air. I’m not as concerned if goes down 4th or 2nd, just if it is going to go to the health center or not. The maps three project description calls for 5 to 6 miles of streetcar and the main spine in the proposed route is only 4.4mi.

Thanks to everyone for your interest and the posts

Great point Jill.

To me the exact route through Deep Deuce isn’t a major concern. Engineering would probably play a larger factor. The fact that there are only two ways to reach Bricktown (Mickey Mantle/Walnut bridge and Broadway) are reason enough to consider a Deep Deuce alignment. Especially since the bridge at Mickey Mantle/Walnut isn’t handicap accessible. Which means if you live in any of the new additions west of Walnut and are handicapped, you would need to go over to Broadway and south to Sheridan (or Reno, depending on the location of the Bricktown leg).

Great discussion! As Chair of the Deep Deuce Business Association, I can tell you that our Board discusses this topic regularly and overwhelmingly supports the transit coming through DD on 2nd Street. The potential of new customers from other districts would certainly benefit our members. We have been told it’s not priority right now. Also, as a DD resident with small children, convenient downtown transit would incentivize me to take my children to a DT stop vs going to adventure district or further north.