Butchering of the Steer Continues
It’s interesting to see the misinformation that sometimes comes out of the various MAPS 3 meetings. One bit of misinformation is the implication that the convention center subcommittee somehow agreed that the streetcar system is a lower priority than the convention center and isn’t as important to economic development.
I was there. I didn’t see or hear that. Instead I saw a constituency that, right or wrong, was upset their project was scheduled last. They debated over whether projects with less economic impact were getting a higher priority. Only one person briefly mentioned the street car in a list of items that they questioned has as much impact as the convention center. There was no sweeping indictment by the subcommittee or its members that streetcars have no economic impact, or that the project isn’t as important as the convention center.
Expect similar debates to follow. There are those who would like to see the white water rapids venue on the river sped up for economic development reasons. I’m sure we’ll see pressure elsewhere. Pitty ADG’s Mike Mize and the city’s Eric Wenger, who will have to navigate their way through these choppy waters.
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Comments
Larry Nichols was against transit going before the convention center, as was Avis Scaramucci. She said that the convention center was the driving force and that transit going first was putting the cart before the horse. Mike Carrier said that while he liked streetcars he questioned what it’s going to do since there would be less and less bodies downtown as the convention center business declined. I sensed that that the feeling was the streetcar’s purpose was only to serve the convention center and that it had no economic impact in of itself. I for one will be very interested to see ADG’s subconsultants’ report on the economic impact of all the MAPS 3 projects to be presented at the April 19 joint City Council / MAPS 3 Advisory Board workshop.
Steve, I have to question this post of yours. The “conventions before transit” comments are WAY more pervasive than you indicate, and I know you know how pervasive that point of view is.
Just look at the Ward 2 race right now..
Mark, you heard something different than I did. Yes, Carrier said that, but it was in the context of his belief that a lot of the MAPS 3 amenities (including the park, etc) would go to waste if the city’s convention business dies off (a difficult idea to comprehend, granted, since downtown consists of far more than just convention business). I didn’t hear Avis say anything specific to the streetcars. I did hear Larry Nichols say it would make sense to have a convention center built first to help provide traffic for the streetcars, but that’s not the same as saying streetcars should be relegated to the last spot in MAPS 3. These statements are far different than implying the whole committee sees streetcars as a lower priority and aren’t a key to future economic development.
Nick, I’m reporting back on what I saw and heard in the meeting. Anyone who tries to say this committee spent a bunch of time talking about streetcars is putting out bad info. It’s just not true.
Would be great if we could start all the projects tomorrow, but obviously that’s not possible. It’s also impossible to get everyone to agree on the order, because everyone wants their project first. I hear and understand arguments that the convention center should be staged earlier, but they all make it seem like conventions are the driving force of downtown. While they are a big part of it, that ignores the booming residential, employment, and lifestyle sectors in downtown. The streetcar and park are the MAPS 3 projects that serve all these AND the convention center. The argument that there will be no one to use the park and streetcar without the convention traffic is pretty insulting to the people that use downtown on a daily basis.
I saw you there. Is it possible that by being emotionally invested in the streetcar project, what comments were made had a bigger impression on you as a result?
It’s interesting how accounts of this meeting have deviated. Today I listened to a city official who had little recollection of the committee being informed the city council had determined the $30 million of the $280 million should be spent on the OG&E substation regardless of where the convention center is located. I’m going to assume you DID hear that…
For what it’s worth Mark, and before accusations start flying at the other site that I’m part of some sort of conspiracy, I will point out to everybody that placing the biggest, most expensive project last in MAPS 3 is consistent with the original MAPS. It’s difficult to see how proper budgeting, planning, etc., can take place if the most expensive item is done first, with no regard to how revenues and expenses might come in during the ensuing years.
I also will have a column coming out soon about how the Broadway/Robinson spine provide some of the best potential development spots that could be boosted by the presence of a streetcar.
“I also will have a column coming out soon about how the Broadway/Robinson spine provide some of the best potential development spots that could be boosted by the presence of a streetcar.”
That’s great Steve. I think I can say we all appreciate that.
Are these meetings being recorded? Seems like keeping a public record might be a good idea…. I’m just sayin’
Steve:
As far as I know only notes are made at the meeting to later compile the minutes. I don’t believe the meetings are recorded as you see at ACOG meetings, for example. In the transit subcommittee we’ve revised the minutes on several occasions as we want to be sure they fully and accurately communicate to the public our discussions (especially when it comes to important distinctions such as preferred and protect alignments and issues like “based on currently available information,” “pending detailed engineering,” “pending final Hub and CC locations,” etc., etc.).
Will definitely be looking forward to your column. I’d like to think you’ll be illustrating an important aspect of why the N/S Robinson/Broadway spine has risen to the top both for the MAPS 3 subcommittee and the Alternatives Analysis Steering Committee.
It stands to reason that people invested in their beliefs (and maybe more) will have their own filtering system. It is good that each interest group is passionate. But in the end, it is up to the city officials to govern and to manage according to what they believe will be in the overall best interests to the city. While you may love all your kids equally, in the end each one needs special attention. Priority has to be established. And just because there is no revenue associated with the centers for the aging project doesn’t automatically mean it doesn’t or shouldn’t have priority too. How do you decide between your eldest son and eldest daughter. Both are special
For those of us not in the know: Who is giving out the misinformation and debating what happened?