Jobs! White collar, high wage paying jobs!

Hey Chamber, you saw it here! Jobs. White collar, high wage paying jobs! (See if you can reverse fortunes for the newspaper industry and get me a raise while you’re at it!)
I hear ya BA.

I’m in my late 20s and after graduating from OU almost all of my friends either moved to Dallas or back to Tulsa (where I’m from). Only a few stayed in the OKC area. I’m really happy with the way OKC is developing. I’m happy here, but the night scene is still extremely weak in OKC (even compared to Tulsa) for young people. OKC needs an area with at least 6-7 bars, entertainment venues in one place. Right now you have Western with a few, Classen (Edna’s…) with 4. They’re okay, but OKC needs better. The Plaza District and Paseo have amazing potential, but one bar between them. For these places to become more popular they need more to offer for those that want a nightlife. Look at Tulsa to see what’s possible: The Blue Dome District, the Brady District, Cherry Street, and Brookside leave Tulsa with a much better scene than the spread out scene in OKC. (I want to point out that there are many young people whose life does not revolve around going out and I get that… but there are a lot of people that want that also.)

Along with the Plaza District and Paseo, I think Deep Deuce has great potential with the bar going in aLoft. If a couple more bars moved in close together in DD, and with it’s proximity to Bricktown, there could be the possibility for what OKC needs…

I’m not sure I see Gen Y as seeing the glass half empty. … I think they might have a different glass! My step-kiddo is 25, been married for 2 years, owns a house. (Lives outside Houston but wild horses could not have kept that cold-natured Texan here). Now, she is not necessarily average, but the 20-somethings I encounter are not the 20-somethings we were. The post-9/11 cohort, further slapped by the Great Recession and the housing meltdown, seem to want … less … less of the kinds of falderal we thought we wanted anyway. Partyin’, a zillion clubs, diamonds and gold, all that \Greed is good\ BS some of us now in our 40s got sucked into in our 20s … I don’t see it today. Their parents — that’s us — are the ones that still want more than we ought to, and it was our age up to 60 who caused this economioc crash. I think \these kids today\ want more normal stuff, a house, a car, a good-paying job, cool things to do — but STABILITY, which I don’t recall giving much of a rat’s about myself 20-25 years ago.

This is the reality, that most people in OKC don’t care about retaining “Generation Y.” They don’t want to hear the complaining. Most people in OKC will hear someone suggesting improvements for OKC and will get offended and just say, “Don’t let the door hit you on the @$& on yer way out.”

These kinds of discussions never lead to anything productive in my experience. Be realistic about how the residents of this city really feel.

And they especially don’t take kindly to the idea that OKC needs to become more “yuppie”-friendly. They like that focus on the family stuff. Most people view downtown as an amusement part. Urbanism? Bah. That’s what the Northwest Expressway is for.

I think you have to re-package certain ideas for certain people. For instance, a better way to make the argument to most Oklahomans is something like: “These are the things that need to happen in order for your kids to not move thousands of miles away.” I think that will resonate a little stronger, because everyone here knows something about that.

I also think business-minded people need this message instead: “These are the things you need to focus on in order for OKC to attract and retain more of the college graduates needed to power the economy and keep OKC prosperous.” Every person in business in Oklahoma City is keenly aware of the fact that there has always been a “brain drain” in this state. Usually it’s something they’d like to do something about.

I don’t understand why the powers that be won’t let urbanism work and do it’s thing, in creating an environment that WILL attract and retain more college grads, more creative types, more of the people needed for prosperity, and reverse the “brain drain.”

But Okies seem to prefer clinging on to the way things are, especially including that brain drain.

I think we need more organic growth. It will take small developers and small business owners (over major developers) to retain Gen Y people (and I’m one of them). I frequent Paseo & Plaza for the arts, food & theatre, but also enjoy it’s imperfections.

Steve,

I’m leading edge Generation Y (1983)and I moved to OKC after growing up just outside Kansas City. I can see and feel the momentum in the city and like being a part of that change. Things seemed to have changed a little in KC, but I never remember momentum or progress like we have here. I don’t know if the glass is empty or full, but I can see it filling and that is almost more important than how full it is.

All that said, I’m a father of young kids and live not far from Downtown. My wife and I are wrestling with the reality that the school we’d send my daughter to is terrible in every possible way. So while we were attracted to live here and want to stay, something needs to change with the schools, or keeping people like me from moving away is unrealistic.

I was born in the late 80s in OKC and went to school out-of-state, but have since moved back to OKC after graduation. The development of Bricktown, Midtown, and Western is really cool and provides a lot of options for a fun night life. I can tell you that in my peer group, more people are staying in OKC than leaving. And those that leave are generally doing it just for a couple years to “get away.”

How to improve the city? The area south of crosstown I-44 and north of I-40 needs to be more densely populated. That area is the urban night life hub of OKC, but there is one big problem: lack of affordable housing for people living in their 20s. There are a few apartment complexes that help like Legacy and Lincoln, but I really think Condos placed in that area that sell for around $100M-$150M would be great.

A side postive to a more dense north downtown area? More taxis. Unlike most urban cities, most nightgoers drive from bar-to-bar because there aren’t enough taxis to be depended upon.

JK nailed a big part of the hiccup in downtown housing: The pricve point is way too high for first-time buyers.

Also, somebody left this on my FB page in response, and I have to say, AMEN: “Have you read the front page of your own paper lately. Thank God for Arizona is all I can say. We are living behind a Red Curtain and Alice is running the Mad Hatter’s Tea Party. We eat our own in Oklahoma.”

To paraphrase and adapt Foxworthy: We have got to keep the least amongst us out of the Legislature!

This might not be the most appropriate thread for this, but it’s on my mind.

I was reading another cities “plan” for downtown redevelopment. It discussed barriers to development including overbearing rules and regulations. In then went on in almost the same breath to discuss how they needed a design review type board to make sure the “right” development occurred in their precious downtown.

Now I am no professed expert of urban development, but what they are suggesting is replacing onerous regulation with new just as onerous regulation.

I live in Bartlesville, OK (I know this is OKC, but I keep up, used to live nearby) and this town albeit much smaller has a considerably nice downtown. However like most towns it has fallen on hard times especially with the major highway now bypassing downtown altogether. Bartlesville started what was called the “Design Review Committee” a few years ago to make sure the correct looking development was going to take place in our downtown. Recently Sonic applied to build a drive in right on the edge of the CBD which would require the destruction of a 100 year old vacant auto dealership (which coincidently moved out to previously mentioned major highway). Believe it or not permission was granted and all systems were go, but enough citizens spoke out to put a stop to it altogether and the project is now dead. I know, this is a victory for urban planning. In the meantime the Design Review Committee has been abolished altogether since they obviously not doing their job.

My point is, Bartlesville’s (and any town for that matter) downtown was not created with design guidelines, so how should we expect it to redevelop with guidelines. Don’t get me wrong, I would love to see infill that matched the existing downtown (ala Fort Worth Texas) more than anyone, but I feel it is somewhat totalitarian for someone to tell someone else what kind of structure to build. I understand property owners say that they worry about property value. But let me tell you what, if someone came and said I’m going to build a 60 story all glass office tower that looks like a middle finger, not a soul would complain (Devon). Jobs are jobs and we need jobs.

I loathe the construction of The Legacy as much as most of you I’m sure, but look at what it provides downtown; affordable (relative) housing. Everyone is worried about form and not content. Devon builds a giant tower with hundreds of jobs and no one would ever dream of stopping them no matter what it looked like. Sandridge on the other hand isn’t adding any jobs (to my knowledge) and they are running into roadblock after roadblock.

Well, I leave it at that for now, but I will continue on I’m sure, since this seems the best place in the state to talk urban.

How about not constantly electing ultra-conservative politicians to virtually every single city/county/state office?

How about a progressive source of news and information (and don’t say the Gazette provides this, that rag has been printing the exact same issue, basically, for the last 25 years or whatever)?

How about industry other than oil/gas?

How about some density?

How about something authentically “Oklahoma City” (i.e., not just copied/imported from someplace else, e.g., riverwalk, Alamo Draft House, Bass Pro shop, etc.) in Oklahoma City.

How about not ignoring the OU Health Science Center when thinking about downtown? The city should milking that place for everything it is worth.

How about getting some city leaders that can think about more than “arenas” and “convention centers?”

How about some places featuring killer live music on a regular basis? Not just local bands, but independent, alternative acts that tour the country. And maybe jazz. And everything else.

How about some non-corporate radio? Or, god forbid, community radio?

You know that downtown Halloween parade? More stuff like that. Year round.

As a matter of fact, how about you go ask Wayne Coyne the five things he’d most like to see in this city. And do all five of those things first. Even if they seem “communistic” or “heathen” to the city leaders.

How about turning one of the 1,000 downtown vacant lots into parks, community gardens, or other urban green spaces?

How about creating a city where the most racist, conservative OKC resident actually thinks to him/herself, “This place is just too damn liberal?” It that too much to ask?

As a Gen Y professional thinking about leaving Oklahoma City, I think BA is right in that the biggest thing to address is obviously jobs. Though I don’t see many new oppurtunities on the horizon in my field, local government because of Oklahoma’s unique and disfunctional property tax system.
From a planning prespective though, affordable housing would have to top the list. I know a major hurdle has been that with high land and development costs everyone is building upscale properties in an effort to recoup expenses. I really think the way to get past this is with dense small residences in prime locations. The target young professionals would be willing to trade sq. feet for location.
One big obstacle though that is much harder to address is an issue of culture. Oklahoma is a place where a sense of community is not derived from who you live near but who you see in church on Sunday, a place where everything closes at 9-10 on weekdays, a place with strict liquor laws.
I also see many recent political developments as alienating GEN Y. Oklahoma’s hard shift to the right is very much attributable to demographics, an aging boomer population lashing out at the changes being pushed on a national level by the GEN Xs coming to power. Many of the conservative changes being made right now in Oklahoma give Oklahoma a bad name amongst young people (justly of not). This issue is going to be very hard to address throuhgh any specific reforms.
Oh, and it might be nice if we didn’t have the worst public transit system of any major US city.

We need smoke-free bars as part of our nightlife scene! Public transportation will keep generation Y here.

Yuppies and NRA families can coexist peacefully. It seems that many in Oklahoma are willing to see some of our most talented graduates leave the state, because they represent that evil phrase: “the elite”. Rather than being hostile towards those who leave the state temporarily or permanently, we should encourage them to learn what they can while away and bring back that knowledge to the state. If they choose to stay away, we should encourage them to be ambassadors of the state to reverse the common misconceptions that people have of us.

Young professionals do not always move to the east coast, west coast, Dallas, Charlotte, or Atlanta simply because they do not like Oklahoma. People often leave because of the career opportunities are not present in Oklahoma. Oklahoma does not need to only keep people from leaving after college, we need to bring people in from other thriving areas of the nation.

Bringing high-tech and white collar business to the state should be our first priority. We need to be more Chesapeake and Devon and less Walmart in order to prosper and be attractive for those looking to relocate here or stay here after school.

I wonder if it bothers any of the merchants/property owners in Bricktown that they aren’t even in this conversation.
OUCH!

How come my comments keep getting deleted or blocked? I posted twice on this thread and one was up and then taken down… Big brother?

Kilgore, it’s the price to be paid for not being bombarded with Russian porn links. The filter is very aggressive. I try to hit the filter as often as possible, but today I’ve been offline until now.
Unless you’re engaging in personal attacks or have a history of personal attacks, there is no moderation going on.

What’s wrong with Russian porn links? Actually, I think that’s just what OKC needs to retain Gen Y…

That smiley is way creepier than I had hoped

I don’t think many of you realize how many young, native Oklahomans are staying in OKC or leaving surrounding Oklahoma towns for the city. Most are staying or want to stay. The issues are contiuous and never ending: more jobs and better real estate options.

Tax vacant land and buildings at a higher property tax rate than occupied real estate. This will give people the incentive to sell or develop the property. Many people will just hold on to the property until someone offers them a lot of money for it. Low property taxes for vacant or run down real estate just lets the owners sit on the ownership until someone else builds or improves the nearby property which makes the do nothing owners property more valuable.

I work and will soon live downtown. And I can without a doubt say that Oklahoma politics have to become less conservative. I’m not saying we have to be a blue state… but when the legislature focuses on “hot-button” issues Gen Y is mostly put off by the entire thing. My positions on issues aside, I don’t care about abortion, gay-marriage, and fighting Obama. I care about fixing our roads, making better schools, and improving the city and state in real, measurable ways.

I would say 70% of the friends I’ve had that have left the city have done so with politics being a big part of their decision.

I again want to say that I’m not advocating that the state has to be blue, it just has to be closer to the realm of sanity to keep younger folk, including myself, here.

I have to agree. It is Oklahoma politics that is one of the more “uncomfortable” things about Oklahoma City.

That being said, my wife and I, both in our late 20s, are most interested in a relatively clean place to live, lots of good urban spaces (our almost-nightly routine is to drive down to Bricktown and Downtown) for walking and a city that is not afraid to be diverse. Embracing diversity makes everyone feel more at home, not just the minorities.

I prefer high-tech governments over low-tech ones.

Public transportation. We are a one car family that would love to go to a no car family.

I think it is safe to say that “less is more” sums up the way a great deal of my friends and I feel. But we need our cities to be more human-scaled if we are to be able to reasonably ‘survive’ with fewer things and smaller spaces. We need to be able to walk to the grocery store a couple of times a week because a 30 cu.ft. refrigerator isn’t going to fit in our apartment. We need parks that are not just close, but make for a destination that we long for after a day of work. They can’t be simply gestures of green space. Streets should absolutely be 100% pedestrian friendly. When in doubt, favor pedestrian accessibility. Tree canopies keep the necessary walks safer and more pleasing.

All this doesn’t create a utopia. It just allows for an imperfect, aspiring people to do more with less.

My specific recommendations for the OKC:

1) Focus on creating nodes of walkability. Identify dense areas throughout the city and work on making these near perfect in terms of livability. These can be as small as a mile in radius.
a. plant trees along all roads
b. widen sidewalks (no less than 8ft)
c. narrow roads
d. plant many more trees in our parks and add many more miles of trails (within) these parks
e. get rid of all “highway” lighting within these ‘urban’ cores
f. change zoning to require property line building on street side
g. add one or two outdoor amphitheaters for organic gathering and events

2) Create a Gen X, Y, and Millennial committees and encourage them to present position papers for any major projects to the councils, committees, and staff. Show you are listening and that you recognize that you don’t always see it from all perspectives.

3) Triple public transit funding and go to a grid system for buses. There are fewer things more frustrating than having to ride the bus all the way downtown and then all the way back up to go 2 miles. Most of the time I will just walk or drive. But that makes no sense. I would gladly pay twice the fare for a grid system. It would still be way cheaper than owning a car. $50 a month for unlimited is a steal. The problem is, the current system isn’t worth $50 unless you live or work in Downtown. Otherwise it is really hard to move a few miles ‘laterally’. Put a permanent 1 cent sales tax on the ballot for public transit, which would triple their budget. I recognize that if I lived downtown, this wouldn’t be as much of a problem. But while we ARE hoping to move downtown soon, it is incredibly naive to assume or expect all young people to do the same.

4) Create and adopt a Complete Streets policy. Fund Complete Street projects with an earmarked .25 cent sales tax.

I would like to point out that sidewalks and lighting alone does not create walkable places. East 23rd is a great example. There is nothing walkable about some of that road except for the fact that there is a hard surface for going in a straight line. Narrow sidewalks and decorative lights are gestures that are seen as such and will not prompt good development along them. I would be willing to be some money that if you tripled the width of those sidewalks, you would see a property owner build right up to them within a year –and more would follow. This is about economic development and wide, clean sidewalks are one of the cheapest, best tools a city can wield.

Well, that is enough for now. I hope it helps answer your question Steve.

I do think a Complete Streets sales tax would be something worth pursuing for OKC. One thing that voters/citizens constantly gripe about is bad roads with potholes. Well, in reality, OKC’s arterials are actually in really good condition considering a few of the factors at play: harsh climate, overbuilt capacity, enormous sprawl, stretched-thin maintenance budget. The car pavement is very good considering those things, and I know the majority of OKC residents griping about roads don’t mean to say they want more urban, walkable roads, etc.

BUT I think a complete streets tax is something that could be a good solution. The argument would be that the roads would improve for everyone, not just cars (which would benefit from new, nicer pavement), but especially pedestrians–walkers and joggers. I think that could be an appealing way to sell urbanism to people in OKC.

But keep in mind, and I can’t stress this enough, you have to sell it to the people–and the people in this city generally don’t give a damn about urban planning. They don’t care for the planning buzzwords, in fact, they probably associate them with all things Obama, and that’s not good. Edmond tried to get serious about sustainability last year, and went so far as to even use that word, and got a huge backlash from residents who thought their city had signed on to some U.N. conspiracy to weaken the USA’s economic and industrial power that of course Obama and France were behind. All because they used the word “sustainability.”

Sometimes I think all OKC really needs is someone to cut through all the bullshit. But I guess everywhere could kind of use someone like that…

Interesting to read so many commentators mention politics as one of top obstacles to keeping youth in OKC.

Not the sort of thing city government or The Oklahoman will like to hear.

James, you are right and it is exactly the kind of thing that city officials should be paying attention to and doing more to contact their own state elected officials to encourage them to do the right thing.

It certainly is a matter of economic development.

Awesome post, Steve. I wish someone had asked this question of Gen X.

One thing we’ve got to offer Gen Y to get that glass full to the top is AFFORDABLE HOUSING in the creative urban core. And, while Gen Y does want higher paying job$ – who doesn’t – they want opportunities to LEAD. They will not wait 20 years to assume a position of leadership like Gen X. They want meaningful work NOW. And, the meaningful work is there for them to apply their talents to. What remains to be seen is whether or not Gen X will check their ego at the door and act on the best interest of the organizations and companies they were hired to serve. Our competition is global and to thrive we need all brilliant minds at the board table – not just those who’ve lasted longer than everyone else.

You continue to be (IMHO) one of the most important voices in Oklahoma City, Steve. Your insight never ceases to amaze me.

I’m a day or two late on this, but just wanted to contribute a few thoughts.

1.) until the population of OKC changes, the polititians and legislation will not. We can complain about how conservative our legislators are, but like it or not, that’s who the public is electing. I know, it’s kind of a “chicken or the egg” type argument, but without liberal OKC people sticking around AND showing up at the polls, this won’t change anytime soon. We liberals need to volunteer with the candidates we support to help usher in change in our community.

2.) The issue of affordable living comes up often. Downtown certainly needs affordable housing options for those looking to buy. But as a whole, OKC has some of the most affordable housing in the nation! I bought my house 2 years ago in a great neighborhood a few miles west of downtown for a very reasonable price. There are many more like it. Let’s look at strengthening ALL of the urban core intead of just downtown. It would be fantastic to have better public transporation options that included western, classen, 16th street, 9th street, Midtown and 23rd street. I am also waiting ever so patiently to see more development along NW 23rd in the Tower Theater area…

3.) From the perspective of some of my suburban friends, let’s also PLEASE keep in mind that the commenters on this website represent those who are interested in downtown progress and downtown living. The majority of Gen Y in the OKC Metro area are not interested in living downtown. I know so many Gen Y couples buying houses in the burbs and settling down, literally right after college. Even before they have children, they are planning for them and picking houses in Edmond, Moore and other locations because of the schools. Improving OKC schools would go a long way to help keep these folks in the OKC area.