Answers … Sort of …
Marsha Slaughter, who heads up the city’s water/waste water division, has finally responded to questions about this sidewalk barricade. Sort of. She answered three of the questions left unanswered. So let’s get into the questions she answered first:
1. What is the risk of lowering the grate (an inch or so) so that it is flush with the sidewalk and doesn’t impede pedestrian traffic? Is it really a life or death situation if the grate is lowered?
A: It is a life or death situation. Our employees enter the vault and have to be able to safely maneuver heavy water meters and fittings safely while they are in the vault.
The box is about five inches tall on the downhill side. There is not a different thin lid that will create the same walk-ability concrete does on a slope. A metal plate, for example, is slippery when wet regardless of how nicely it’s finished and in this location would be slippery on a slope.
2. How big of a deal would it be to move the water meter if lowering the grate is unacceptable?
A: About $100,000 and a high annoyance factor during construction. The water line under the street’s pavement would have to be lowered, the pipe from the water line to the meter box dug up and lowered, the meter box would have to be rebuilt to be flush with the sidewalk, then the sidewalk would have to be reconstructed and the pavement patched because it would be torn out during the construction. It would always look patched.
3. Regardless of expense, would this sort of sidewalk impediment be accepted in front of a (prominent home)? Would you really tell them, “tough, it’s too expensive to move?”
Yes. Builders purchase and install the water meter according to our standards. Meters get installed in a consistent manner so they accurately and reliably measure the amount of water customers use, are safe for our employees to work in, and can be found to shut off when broken plumbing floods a building.
I understand the suggestion is the City reinstalls the meter box at our expense. It’s our ratepayers money and we use it carefully. The sidewalk is useable by all.
Marsha Slaughter, Utilities Director
Now, for the questions she chose not to answer:
- Would it be acceptable to have a fenced grate in the middle of a street? If not, and if pedestrian access is now to be given equal (or better) footing with vehicular access, than why is this an acceptable sidewalk?
- What does this sort of sidewalk arrangement say about Oklahoma City’s engineering standards? What does it say about the Oklahoma City Water/Waste Water Utilities Department? What does it say about its responsibility to provide residents with sidewalks that are as safe and free of barriers as streets are for cars? Or are we back to treating pedestrian access as an afterthought to vehicular access?
I’ve also added a couple follow-up questions….
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Comments
Grolgar, I’m not sure what’s going on here. But in my career I’ve seen some pretty blatant examples of passive aggressive decisions among city staff (I’ve also seen far more wonderful, great work as well).
I’m sitting here wondering: how much money did the city spend on handicap ramps attached to no sidewalks whatsoever. Yeah, yeah, I’ve heard the city response – they were required to by feds Seriously? Did the city really think it would be sued by the feds if it didn’t have ramps at intersections where there are no sidewalks?
But Steve, isn’t the intention for those to be eventually connected to each other? Thus, the city is already one step ahead when it comes to installing sidewalks across the city, no matter how long it may take. You may not think those things are important, but I always see people on bikes, mopeds, or in wheelchairs who have to physically lift their item onto the curb and then continue on in plain grass. I appreciate those ramps because I know a lot of people are thankful for them. It also gives a sense of progress throughout the city.
I’m not trying to be rude. But those ramps are 20 times more important to the common pedestrian than this messed up water-grate is.
Steve:
Who were these “passive aggressive decisions among city staff” against? The citizens of Oklahoma City? City staff
On this issue all I really care about is whose fault is it and if it is a mistake then whomever made the mistake should pay for it to be corrected. The little nitpicky things like “Who made the decision is is life or death..YOU or someone else” is just argumentative and seems to just be designed to get someone angry. I understand in the past that you (Steve) may have had dealing with other individuals that made you angry, but unless Marsha was one of them give her a break and then just above her head if you don’t the answers you seek. Just ask the City Manager’s office if Marsha can get the answers.
As far as sidewalk ramps where there are no sidewalks, you better believe the Feds will sue the city if there was federal money used to improve an adjacent road and sidewalk ramps were not installed. You can thank Congress and the various ADA compliancy provisions for that. All it would take is one busy body to complain to the Feds and we could get a few months of Congressional hearings out of it and a nice fun lawsuit from the Justice Dept. and the ramps would have to be installed anyway. Just a quick search I believe has the relevant requirements codified at 28 C.F.R. §§ 35.150(d)(2), 35.151(2 (e).
Brent, I’m not angry. Emotion doesn’t enter into it all. I just see something that has prompted questions not just with myself but others as well.
As for ADA, is this sidewalk really friendly to the handicapped? I’ll be finding out about that later this week.
To be blunt, this is not personal against Marsha Slaughter at all. But there are times when people working for the city, state and federal government make mistakes. And I’ve noticed more than once they would prefer to see those mistakes not mentioned, not addressed, just forgotten.
I’m the annoying guy who jumps up and down, points at the mistake, and requests to be told how it happened, who is responsible, and why can’t it be fixed.
Now, to all of you … what does this say about the city’s standards when it comes to engineering?
While being angry may not have entered the picture Steve, your constant need of bullying certainly has. I’m a big fan of yours and love your support of the city but as Brent said this constant bullying is definitely coming across as being designed to anger someone. With each post you do on this one issue it is becoming more and more clear that you are bullying the city into getting answers until your happy. Please be careful.
….she’s answering some of the questions, but maybe the questions are wrong. The “who’s fault” question is going nowhere, the “can we lower the grate” question was answered. What about another possible question, can the sidewalk grade itself be raised to be flush with the grate and then slope back down to existing grade on the low side? Seems like a relatively cheap, quick fix to me. Also, I would guess this kind of detail wont be ignored in the future after all this hubbub.
Steve, I like Justin’s question about raising the sidewalk grade to be flush with the grate. Here’s an idea: if it isn’t too expensive and the city gives its approval, perhaps we get some bids, raise some money, and just take care of this ourselves. Maybe this stretch of sidewalk will come to be known as the “OKC Central Corridor.”
If you decide to move forward with this, please put me down for a contribution to the cause.
Steve:
You didn’t answer my question.
How are city staff “passive aggressive” and who are they “passive aggressive” against?
Tim, an example that in hindsight most folks involved agree was a bit of passive-aggressive behavior was the striping of parking spots along Broadway following an the Auto Alley streetscape. Public works initially skipped parking spaces despite them being requested by area property owners. When they raised a fuss, crews went back in and striped the spaces to match the old lane stripes, creating very awkwardly spaced and sized spaces.
Public works, in the eyes of many downtown observers, also drug its feet for years when it came to converting one way streets to two way traffic. I’m not going to create a complete list for you here, but these are just two examples. As for “against” – that’s a broad question….
I’m not meaning to anger or bully Ray. But one has to wonder – how does something like this happen and can it be fixed? Can it be handled any better? Or do we just accept it?
Captcha on this comment: “antifix strategy.”
charm, steve. you have it, use it. then the problem can be fixed and you will be universally loved and admired.
as for when to employ charm vs. “bulldog” tactics, i would offer the following: when pointing out an error that needs correcting, kindness is in order. when pointing out deliberate malfeasance (of which the oklahoman has reported plenty throughout the years), the gloves come off.
you have done a marvelous job, particularly in reporting about central OKC. it would be a shame for people to get an incorrect image of you. on the other hand, DON’T STOP. you can get the result you want (a fixed sidewalk) without having a war or casualties.
Michael:
While we can hope the ramps and the sidewalks will eventually be connected, it doesn’t always happen that way. Several years ago, corner curb ramps were installed in the Grand Boulevard median (SW 29th). Later when the City came in and added the paved trail that snakes though it, in many cases they didn’t even try to connect with the existing ramps. Some miss by just a few feet, some are completely on the other side of the median.
I read her answer and still don’t get it. One could infer from her explanation that every time in the future a zero lot line building is constructed fronting a road on a slope that this same issue will recur… with OKC Water insisting on a large, flat cover in the middle of the sidewalk for a water meter installation. Once again, the vast majority of the sidewalk will have to be blocked off with fencing.
Clearly, this explanation makes no sense— if it did, we would see this same thing repeat itself on every sloped sidewalk in the CBD fronting a structure using a water meter— yet we don’t.
This whole thing is so stupid— her explanation makes it clear she is defensive and feels her back is up against the wall.
It is clearly a lack of cooperation with the city. No one anticipated. This happens when technical people or contractors think only of the project and nothing about the people who will use it. Technically it is okay. Practially is is stupid. The city answer stands on technicality and is an example of lack of foresight or care. Wouldn’t have costed $100,000 to do it right the first time.
Rover, I think you hit the nail on the head— Ms. Slaughter’s response gives one the clear impression that she doesn’t give a flip about this and just wants this all to go away.
I like the idea of raising the sidewalk to meet the edge of this thing. Any chance we can get Ms. Slaughter to respond to that?
This really is ridiculous. I think it is clear that someone messed up and they are just claiming that it is a safety issue. Clearly, this would not be permitted in front of the new Devon Tower or OKC Arena. Why is this area so different that it necessitates a raised grade?