Thanks for the props, Steve.

A few notes:

1)The OU Health Sciences Center didn’t exit when those vintage routes were chosen … nor did many of the other points that a streetcar route might need to pass by today. Times have changed.

2) I might also mention that, during the 1900s-1910s, Robinson south of NW 13th was a verboten area for streetcars — they were tabu and absolutely off of the list of possibilities.

3) Beyond that, I’d have my doubts that Anton Classen or John Shartel were not open to route influence by others than ordinary citizens needs. Not saying that the route was so influenced, but these guys were businessmen, through and through.

All I’m saying is that the “old” routes shouldn’t necessarily be held up to have some peculiar value to ordinary citizens, even though that might have been the case. We have no way of knowing, as far as I’m aware.

I forgot to add … Mike McAnalley acknowledged after the meeting that it was a mistake not to include Walker in the list of possible alternatives, a mistake that he took the blame for. I really like that guy.

Doug, my points exactly – these guys were businessmen looking to make money.

It’s important to note that Broadway and, for the most part in the area of interest, Walker were previously double-tracked. That’s a very different situation from how far to space apart two single-tracked lines to form a North-South couplet and make the best of the initially available limited track miles.

Steve & Doug:

Thanks for the historical info, had wondered what the old routes were myself (since OKC had a LOT of track miles). Was out of curiosity more than anything else as demographics etc change over time. But then again, “What goes around comes around”. Then again, again, “The more things change the more they remain the same”.

We had all of those streetcars, decided we were too progressive to need such an old fashioned concept and now we are back to them again. Gotta love it!

captcha = voters barbing

Larry (or anyone), if you want to see the full trolley map and not just the crop, you’ll find it in this article.

That map is droolworthy. It would be interesting to have ridership data from those days plus automobile ownership figures. Doug’s companion piece from a few years ago, which he linked to above, is really great reading. There was a fascinating array of trolleys on the streets back then. For rail junkies who would like to see active systems, I recommend San Francisco. Not only do they still run 19th century cable cars, they also run a great collection of vintage streetcars that date mostly from the 1930′s on the F-Line. Many of those streetcars have been brought from other cities that no longer use them and they’ve been restored with the original cities’ (Philadelphia, Boston, Milan,…) livery colors. The Italian “no spitting” signs are amusing. SF also has contemporary Breta streetcars, the BART subway, Caltrain diesel locomotive commuter rail, and the proposed high speed rail to Los Angeles. It would be fantastic, albeit unlikely, to see such a range of transportation choices in OKC. It’s fun to dream, though.

Since we have done this all before, I wonder what lessons can be learned. Were the original routes placed where people already were or where the City wanted them to go? In other words, was it an effort to spur development as we are told they will do now? During the last Transit meeting they mentioned how in one city, the routes they came up with at the beginning of the process were NOT the routes they ended up with. Granted the one cited had a different funding method (sounded like a TIF type thing) where the businesses were paying for it. The preferred routes where infill etc had already been achieved. The business owners a few blocks over said “sure, build it over here, we need the development”

Let’s Talk Transit has now added a 4th Option to the 3 presented at the May 27 meeting, a possible Walker route. See this June 24 update to what I’d written previously, following the May 27 meeting.

Mike McAnelly is a man of his word.