Comments on: Is All of the Information Presented to the Board of Adjustment Accurate? http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2010/05/23/is-all-of-the-information-presented-to-the-board-of-adjustment-accurate/ The Oklahoman's Steve Lackmeyer covers downtown OKC brick by brick. Thu, 16 May 2013 02:42:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5 By: Bill http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2010/05/23/is-all-of-the-information-presented-to-the-board-of-adjustment-accurate/comment-page-1/#comment-9330 Bill Tue, 25 May 2010 22:52:48 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=3946#comment-9330 With all the momentum we have going now, we can’t get re-use of the older buildings we have now funded without use of substantial tax credits and public incentives. Why does anyone think the dozens of unusable buildings from 30 years ago would be any different today. A few buildings were significant, but many were fairly abandoned rat-traps. Even the ones cited here like the Biltmore were havens for bums, prostitutes and worse. Romantic memory doesn’t make for fact. OKC was deteriorating from the downtown and needed something to jolt it into life. That is WHY Pei was brought in. He didn’t just come up with a plan to make our lives pathetic.

]]> By: Jeffrey http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2010/05/23/is-all-of-the-information-presented-to-the-board-of-adjustment-accurate/comment-page-1/#comment-9303 Jeffrey Tue, 25 May 2010 15:38:49 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=3946#comment-9303 It seems from some of the discussion here that there is a question whether KM’s use of the buildings as reported by Steve might have been a violation of city ordinance. If (and I’m saying IF) KM was using the building in violation , then you’re probably not going to find records that say when and how the building was used. As Matt said, if they indeed ran ethernet cables through the walls and ceilings, that should have been approved by the city, which would have required KM to bring the entire building up to code.

If the extent of KM’s use of the building was to stealth about 12 employees over there for occasional overflow projects, I’m not sure one can claim a breach of good faith. The Brian guy above even admitted that no one had permanent offices there.

]]> By: Brian http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2010/05/23/is-all-of-the-information-presented-to-the-board-of-adjustment-accurate/comment-page-1/#comment-9302 Brian Tue, 25 May 2010 15:01:40 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=3946#comment-9302 In regards to your first statement, Jeffrey, if Sandridge didn’t know that Kerr McGee regularly used that building, including officing employees there, then how are they able to, in good faith, make the statement that the buildings had been out of use for 25 years? Their lack of knowledge of KM’s use of those buildings would indicate that they *don’t* know how those buildings have been used over the years. They obviously don’t have access to all of Kerr McGee’s old records.

]]> By: Jeffrey http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2010/05/23/is-all-of-the-information-presented-to-the-board-of-adjustment-accurate/comment-page-1/#comment-9299 Jeffrey Tue, 25 May 2010 14:41:26 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=3946#comment-9299 I think I could make a convincing argument Nick that in the economic climate of the 70′s, the almost entire dependence of the OKC economy at the time on the energy industry (even more so than today), the lightning exodus of people to the suburbs (which had begun in earnest before Urban renewal), that what happened economically downtown would have happened anyway. OKC is a relatively young city with lots of room to spread out that came into its own in the age of the automobile. No one gave a second thought about moving away from downtown because downtown was a crumbling mess and if you did need to get downtown it was easy with OKC’s road system. I think we would probably have ended up somewhere close to where we are now with the one difference being that downtown would still have a quagmire of unusable structures and no money to deal with them.

Your assertion that UR just went around targeting the greatest buildings in town to tear down just for the heck of it or to line their own pockets is revisionist history that must be rejected. I’ve spent time talking to people in the office at urban renewal – I’ve talked to retired cops that walked the beat downtown in the 60′s. Needless to say, their opionions about some of the buildings differs sustantially from yours.

]]> By: Matt http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2010/05/23/is-all-of-the-information-presented-to-the-board-of-adjustment-accurate/comment-page-1/#comment-9294 Matt Tue, 25 May 2010 14:01:12 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=3946#comment-9294 Nick, explain your first sentence.

Your last paragraph, I agree with your “economics” of downtown. I just can’t take you to seriously when you say “well designed, sturdy” in a sentence. Not every building is worth saving. Who were the architects that designed and built those buildings?

]]> By: Nick Roberts http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2010/05/23/is-all-of-the-information-presented-to-the-board-of-adjustment-accurate/comment-page-1/#comment-9277 Nick Roberts Tue, 25 May 2010 02:03:07 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=3946#comment-9277 So there’s a way to support socialism and civic building monopolies? Only a few irretrievable treasures: 5+ downtown theaters, streetcars, the rail terminal, numerous department stores, Baum Building, County Courthouse, Delmar Garden/Wheeler Park, Biltmore skyscraper, Overholser Opera House..and like 50+ other notable buildings among the hundreds that were razed.

Downtown skyscrapers aren’t tear-down shacks that land values outweighs building value.

Urban renewal was an authority that coerced an unpopular vision of tearing down distinctive, well-designed, sturdy, and beautiful buildings and replaced them with either nothing or buildings that were of markedly less quality in every regard, save for maybe 4 skyscrapers. That is not defensible. Then consider that it ruined downtown investment–it is now impossible to get a downtown project off without significant local incentive. The economics of downtown are also among the many “irretrievable treasures” that were lost. Now the city should be endeavoring to incentivize a critical mass of development to get downtown back over the tipping point where it can be economically self sufficient in every way, which it is currently not thanks to urban renewal from the 70s.

]]> By: Jeffrey http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2010/05/23/is-all-of-the-information-presented-to-the-board-of-adjustment-accurate/comment-page-1/#comment-9272 Jeffrey Mon, 24 May 2010 19:55:12 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=3946#comment-9272 How the one in the ’70s went is a matter of opinion and believe it or not there are more opinions about that than just yours Nick.

My gosh, what was the total number of buildings taken out in urban renewal and what percentage of those were truly irretrievable treasures? 10%, 20%, 30%. Do you regret 100% of the buildings taken out? Lots of those buildings absolutely needed to go. The jury is still out on Urban Renewal in OKC in my opinion.

]]> By: Nick Roberts http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2010/05/23/is-all-of-the-information-presented-to-the-board-of-adjustment-accurate/comment-page-1/#comment-9267 Nick Roberts Mon, 24 May 2010 19:07:34 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=3946#comment-9267 What it comes down to is proof, and how many more of SandRidge’s erroneous assertions we should let them get away with as they argue the case for the largest building demolition downtown has seen since the 70s. We all know how that one went, and we all regret what we lost.

]]> By: Matt http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2010/05/23/is-all-of-the-information-presented-to-the-board-of-adjustment-accurate/comment-page-1/#comment-9265 Matt Mon, 24 May 2010 17:27:46 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=3946#comment-9265 I am with Jeffrey. So what? Maybe he was referring to documented, permanent tenants. It was illegal to do run the IT stuff over there without a permit.

Find the permit to do the work over there back in 2005. You won’t find it because if they did it legally, then the building would have had to been brought up to code. That, my friend, is a city ordinance.

]]> By: Steven http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2010/05/23/is-all-of-the-information-presented-to-the-board-of-adjustment-accurate/comment-page-1/#comment-9255 Steven Mon, 24 May 2010 13:21:18 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=3946#comment-9255 Keep the feet to the fire Steve, those high-priced Sandridge attorneys are very persuasive, but good at dodging questions.

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