Downtown OKC 2020: Doug Loudenback
Today’s Downtown OKC 2020 guest blogger is a good friend – Doug Loudenback – whose blog www.dougdawg.blogspot.com is a wonderful mix of history, current events and unbounded love for all things involving the NBA Thunder (with a residual affection for the Hornets). When I first asked Doug to step into this conversation, he was at first hesitant pulling off his “aw shucks, what do I know” bit. Don’t let Doug fool you for one moment; he’s as informed about what’s going on in this community as anyone I know. Now, without any further delay …
Steve asks us to answer, What should downtown Oklahoma City look like in 2020, and how can this vision be best achieved? Having already read the answers presented by Dennis Wells and Casey Cornett, as well as the indirectly presented answers of Blair Humphreys both here and in his great blog and of Nick Roberts in his blog, I am immediately struck by the near-vacuum in the minuscule room in my brain labeled, “Downtown 2020.” The room likely wouldn’t even exist but for your questions, Steve.Truth is, I’m neither a planner nor a visionary. I’m not an I.M. Pei or, much better than that, a Neal Horton. I’m not a Mayor Ron Norick. I don’t contain within me one iota of a “grand design” and likely never will.
Maybe that represents a left-brain dominance in me and maybe the creative elements of whatever right-brain I have just don’t work. Or, more likely, I have none of any of the above at all. My wife, Mary Jo, is not particularly impressed with my forays into writing about Oklahoma City’s past – she tells me that I should write a novel involving all such things which might make the New York Times best seller list. But, that presupposes that I have the capacity to come up with a creative, perhaps a devilish plot, and then stuff into that plot lots of interesting fictional characters which will result in a best-seller on or off of the New York Times list. With all respect to my sweet wife, that just ain’t gonna happen.
So, when pondering Steve’s questions, nothing came out of my brain when I put the quarters into its mental slot machine. No 2-of a kind, no 3-of a kind, certainly no 4-of a kind, and absolutely and for sure no royal flush. “Damn machine,” I thought to myself – but then I remembered that I’ve hardly ever won a bet in my life. But, that’s another story altogether.
Time for me to take another tack.
I began to think about Steve’s queries in a different way – what perspectives do I have that some don’t, and how have I been spending most my time, say, for the past three years? I do have volumes of thoughts, interest, and time spent about Oklahoma City’s history, as well as a writing here and there. Could my interest in Oklahoma City history somehow relate to Steve’s inquiries? I wasn’t, and am not, at all sure about the answer to that, but here you go.
My approach in formulating this response is to regurgitate Steve’s questions and pose to myself an entirely different pair of questions than he did, they being, “What do I miss most about the ‘old’ downtown, the days before anyone in these parts ever heard of I.M. Pei?” and “How do my answers relate, if at all, to what I would like to see when Oklahoma City 2020 rolls along?
The questions rephrased, it’s not so hard to come up with answers to the first question, shortened to be, “What do I miss” about the old downtown Oklahoma City. The answers are these:
John A. Brown Department Store, downtown, circa 1960s, from Doug's blog.
1. Downtown was busy, very very busy. Not only were the worker-bees downtown, the shopper-and-fun-seeker bees were downtown, too. People, lots of people. All that busy-ness felt good and it was exciting when I’d come to visit as a little kid or teenager coming to “The City” from Lawton (where I largely grew up though being born at St. Anthony’s). And, movies? The Criterion, State, Midwest, Cooper Cinerama, as well as then lesser-rans like the Majestic and the Folly (as well as a lower tier of lesser-rans which shall not be mentioned) were all downtown. The curtains around the theater stages weren’t just trim – they were real – and the decor in the audience halls jumped out at you whether you looked side-to-side or up-or-down. If space existed downtown, it was used one way or another. Downtown was the city’s vibrant heart – the center of just about everything other than state government, schools, medicine, and maybe some other things I’d add if I put my mind to it. It was busy.
2. Downtown wasn’t clean, it wasn’t orderly, but it was downright messy. Downtown had everything ranging from the heart of business with a pair of skyscrapers one could gawk at to pool/domino halls like the Central Club, the Empire, and Herman Vestal’s where bookies took bets and Minnesota Fats played pool, to fine and/or elite and/or popular dining (the Cellar, Bishops, the old Beacon Club, the Petroleum Club, Anna Maude’s), and, for some, the right place to go for a drink during the prohibition era (the Black Hotel, but only as I understand it, of course). And, for sure, stores like John A. Brown’s, Rothschild’s, Wards, Sears, Streets, Haliburton’s, etc., provided a shopper’s paradise, plus downtown had the movies mentioned above. One could step into downtown in the morning and venture into an endless realm of expected and unexpected happenings, some good, maybe some not so good, and at the end of the day wishing that there was time for more. That’s what “downtown” was. For those who didn’t work downtown, the disorder and messiness meant that, on a good day, one might find unexpected surprises not known from the last visit, even the last visit were yesterday.
3. The architecture was eclectic. This point is somewhat redundant of the above but I mean it a bit differently. Whether a building was built in 1910, 1920, 1930, 1940, 1950, all buildings were tied together as being integral to and a part of the meaning of “downtown” Oklahoma City. Nothing was the model of what “should be” and everything was part of the whole that “was.” The First National Center, Ramsey Tower, Petroleum Building, OG&E, ONG, Baum Building, etc. etc. etc., were all parts of the recognizable whole even if they were radically different in style. That’s what happens naturally when a city is built over decades of time.
“OK, OK,” I thought to myself, “What’s the point of what I’ve said above?” I perceive myself to be a realist and know that what’s gone is gone and that it’s just not going to and cannot possibly return. So, I hit the brick wall, no ideas, no thoughts, and, from the brick wall, developed a really serious headache. The old stuff is not going to come back, not the John A. Browns, not the grand old theaters, not the crummy pool halls, none of it. It is all gone.
My left-brain was bruised, dismayed, and forlorn, and it had nothing to say. Through arduous training, it knows when to stop talking, and it did. But, my less disciplined right-brain has never learned that lesson. At the point that my left-brain shouted, “Stop,” it shouted to me, “Start.” It said, “Oh ye of little faith. What if downtown in 2020 was also eclectic, was also the center of where people came who wanted to have fun, and was also downright messy?”
Left-brain says: “The plans I’ve seen so far look anything but eclectic and chaotic. Those plans are ultra orderly and rather look like a suburban residential model which has been transformed and plopped into downtown grid with nice rows of things showing where everything ‘should be’ and in ‘just the right areas, sort of like a gated downtown without the gates.’ Everything is ‘just so.’ Am I wrong?”
Right-brain agrees, but says, “It doesn’t have to be that way.”
In what I’ve seen so far, there is no room for chaos, sin, or serendipity, and the plans in no way lend themselves toward creating a Phoenix of the old downtown which made it the endearing place that it once was. No doubt, the new plans are slick but in their slickness they leave the messiness, the grit, if you will, behind. The plans I’ve seen so far call for a beautiful, pristine, controlled, and wholly managed city of the future, as slick as those plans are to see. And I’m a sucker for slick plans posited by my city’s leaders, ever since Ron Norick, when I began to trust such people.
This time, though, it is different than MAPS I. The issues facing the city are not the “do or die” circumstances presented in 1993. Then, we voted “Yes,” and we are all the better for having done so. But, the issues today are much different – today, we aren’t faced with dire straits if a negative vote is cast. Instead, we are faced with the more pleasant and less dramatic question, “What is the best thing to do, next,” having already experienced the successes of MAPS I. Back then, bluntly put, the question was whether we as a city were going to go down the toilet or would instead pull ourselves up by our bootstraps. We chose the later. We are not in that dire circumstance today.
So, what’s the environment today as the questions are being considered?
With apologies to all, can you say with a straight face Sylvester Stallone’s 1993 movie, “Demolition Man,” in which a futuristic California city was planned to the nth degree by master planners but was as cold as ice? I admit and understand that the example is exaggerated and may not be the best analogy, but it’s the one that comes to my unimaginative and pedestrian mind. In the movie, it was necessary to resuscitate Stallone from hibernation to deal with the Wesley Snipes character who had already been resuscitated by the city’s master planner to regain control over the city’s underworld (i.e., people like you and me – people who thought freely and on their own). Of course, Snipes was even a worse guy than Stallone in the overall scheme of things, and, in the end, Stallone killed Snipes and chaos ruled supreme! Yea! Everyone was happy, and Sandra Bullock actually KISSED Sylvester Stallone on the lips and, presumably, no one got any more automatic city-fines for saying words like “shit” or worse.
IF there is a point to make from the movie, it is that good order and city planning are not all that there is, just as Peggy Lee wondered so long ago. Good order and city planning aren’t “all that there is.”
The point I’d like to make here is this: city planners, be you the mayor, council members, or others involved, make room for chaos and for serendipity. The beloved Oklahoma City downtown had plenty of both. Worse, don’t impress upon downtown an artificial suburban model where everything is lined up “just so.” That didn’t work with the Pei Plan and voters will not likely approve of a second version of the same tune, particularly after some Bricktown property owners have just sat on their properties waiting for a good deal for sale all the while making Bricktown progress more difficult to occur. We are tired of that and don’t want to see it again, vis a vis the perimeters of whatever Core To Shore turns out to be. Perimeter property should not be included in Core To Shore, perhaps other than conditions which mitigate against just sitting on, and not developing, adjoining properties, so to avoid the Bricktown experience. I’ve not thought through about how this might be done, but I think you get my drift.
So, what have I got to offer to this discussion other than the prospects of chaos? Nothing, nothing at all.
I’ll close this rambling by wholly agreeing with what Dennis Wells has already said. In all of this, DO NOTHING which would chill the maturation and development of those inner-city developments which are already in place in Bricktown, Midtown, Automobile Alley, Flatiron, and leave such things to private investment for it to develop as it will. Bricktown, Midtown, Automobile Alley, Flatiron are generally healthy creatures, but they are young and some are frail. Any city plan for 2020 should take care to insure and not impede their survival.
I like movies and movie lines. In this respect, the movie 2010 comes to mind when at the end the message was sent in uppercase: “ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS – EXCEPT EUROPA. ATTEMPT NO LANDINGS THERE.”
Seems like good advice to me. Our “Europa” is Bricktown, Midtown, Automobile Alley, and Flatiron, our recently developing children of the inner city. Leave our Europa alone.
See, I told you that I’d have nothing particularly imaginative to say. But, I was invited to speak, and there you are.
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Comments
Doug,
I love it! I think your call for “chaos and serendipity” in downtown OKC is just what this city needs. I think your call will prove to be memorable. And your post was as chaotic and serendipitous as a good downtown should be. Full of surprises and unexpected nooks and crannies. Writing and city planning seem to share a lot in common: if an author overplans and overwrites, his message is transparent and boring. But if he get a few essentials details right at the outset, then he has created a platform for surprise and delight to occur. If city planners can give us the necessary infrastructure, then eventually we’ll have a vibrant city. And by the looks of it–if the new downtown streetscaping effort, the Devon TIF district, and MAPS 3 pay off–then the city will have set the stage for something spectacular to happen. Thanks again for your inspirational–and highly entertaining–post, and thanks to Steve for setting up the Downtown 2020 series.
Love your comments, Doug, and also agree with seeing the positive in chaos and serendipity. The best hope we have for that in the Core to Shore area is the fact that we don’t have the money to go out and complete it all at once, ala some of the suburban developments. The fact that it is going to take time is going to mean that different architectural styles are in vogue at different points in time, and hopefully that will mean that we will see varying points of view. I love the idea of denser housing adjacent to the city’s development, and that too will depend on the ideas and visions of the various developers. What we do need to do is ensure that there is a variety of housing available to people of different income levels. We can actually use a “suburban” developer’s ideas to help with that. Mr. Nichols platted a development with houses ranging from small single story houses to grand mansions, with a neighborhood shopping area and multiple “pocket parks”, as well as a grand boulevard. In his development there are houses from virtually every decade, and multiple architectural styles (not all of them attractive, but that’s always a risk!). Translated into urban dwelling, hopefully we will see lofts for people buying or renting their first home, urban style townhouses, and high rise apartment buildings with super luxury penthouses, with scattered small greenspaces and small businesses. And, hopefully (now that I’ve become more aware that these exist), some of the current buildings in the Core to Shore area will be restored and revert to grander uses than current.
This was an entertaining and fun post to read..it made me smile. I don’t usually read long posts like this on days when I’m pressed for time.
Thanks, all. Nick, I don’t know how to do “short.” Since I’m a short guy about 5′ 7″, making long rambling posts is probably how I compensate and cope!
In keeping the conversation rolling…would if transit would be the first to be set in place if MAPS 3 passes? the park won’t be “complete” for another 25 years and a new convention center likely wouldn’t even be started for another 10 years…
Don’t you think adding all the additions of street cars and other inner-city transit would benefit all those downtownish areas improve dramatically before the rest would start to fully develop? I’m just spit balling here and I like all the input I read from all the posters and readers on this site.
I read a lot about a notion that passing MAPS 3 would seemingly kill the other developments going on, I can’t predict the future (as I saw OU winning by about 20) but it seems to me that if MAPS 3 passes then those other developments would really start to boom and grow further identity way before the Core to Shore development would start to really form.
Great post, Doug. I love hearing/reading/seeing photos of the past and agree with you quite a bit about the desire to not have a cookie-cutter layout.
Casey- I like your thoughts. I’ve been trying to imagine a way to reconcile the awesomeness of C2S with this sort of new movement which supports currently developing neighborhoods over C2S. If your timeline is correct, I think 10 years with transit would be enough to give midtown, arts district, automobile alley, and others time to solidify their positions before C2S is in the picture. But will that really be the timing of the maps projects? Will it really be 10 years before the push to develop around new I40 and the boulevard?
Either way, between all of the fledgling urban districts within a mile of downtown, something must be done as soon as possible to exponentially drive up demand for new development downtown. We are going to need a lot of demand for residential, office, and retail to build up those neighborhoods and make a quick start on C2S. It seems to me the only way to do that is with a streetcar system connecting the neighborhoods to each other so that they can feed off each other.
I’ve heard nothing that would indicate the park and convention center wouldn’t be built for another decade. But Mike Carrier, head of CVB, has indicated a new convention center could take UP TO a decade to build and open and he wants it to start as soon as possible to get it open sooner. The video shown on OETA, meanwhile, has a couple of items I suspect were inaccurate, most notably a 50-year timetable for building the pedestrian bridge over the new I-40.
Steve (and everyone else)-
http://www.okc.gov/council/mayor/state_of_city/2009/index.html
Start video 20:55 for quote on Convention Center timing.
I said it wouldn’t be started for another 10 years and I guess I meant, “MAPS was passed in 1993 and the final project, the Ron Norick Library, opened in 2004. Eleven years later. That kind of time lapse is another reason to put a new convention center on our list of priorities now. If we decided to vote on a MAPS 3 initiative in the next year or two, it would most likely be at least ten years from now before that convention center would open. By then, our convention center will be nearly 50 years old. It’s hard to argue with the theory that you need to replace your convention center every 50 years.”
My captcha said “Cigarsfromcuba mohawks” haha
Responding to what you said, Casey, “In keeping the conversation rolling…would [what?] if transit would be the first to be set in place if MAPS 3 passes? the park won’t be “complete” for another 25 years and a new convention center likely wouldn’t even be started for another 10 years…
Don’t you think adding all the additions of street cars and other inner-city transit would benefit all those downtownish areas improve dramatically before the rest would start to fully develop? I’m just spit balling here and I like all the input I read from all the posters and readers on this site.”
I have a couple of thoughts about street car stuff:
(1) I think it’s an exciting item and my conditional personal inclination is to get going with it right away;
(2) The conditions tempering my enthusiasm are:
(a) The Route. The route has an enormous effect on my enthusiasm … the steering committee report merely said that the route would be, “A bi-directional loop operating along Robinson and Walker Avenues from the downtown core to the Oklahoma River, with extensions to the south as development continues.” What in the heck does THAT mean? I don’t know. I suspect that the initial component of the route would also have a great deal to do with (b), below.
(b) The Europa Concern. I’d want to hear what people like Dennis Wells would have to say about this, people who have existing investments, especially residential. I certainly don’t have any expertise to make an informed assessment but if those who do give it a big thumbs up, then I’m all on board. I don’t apologize for buck passing — it’s just that I have no expertise upon which to base an opinion and I want to hear from the experts.
Not meaning to stray too much here, but … am I the only one who thought “2010″ was an under-rated movie?
Good stuff from all, an enjoyable read, I certainly hope we can keep some randomness to downtown. I think I am getting old though as this post reminds me of one of my favorite author’s quotes (Douglas Adams): “Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of things.”
In any event, to stray even further from the above, it looks like ODOT is at least going to follow through on paying for demolition of the current I-40 crosstown since the latest eight-year ODOT plans appears to show it has budgeted approx. $8.7 mil. for its demolition in fiscal year 2013. Still didn’t see anything about paying for a boulevard though. http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/projmgmt/8-yr_cwp/cwp2010-2017.pdf
I’m an Arthur C. Clarke fan, Steve. I had to read his 2001: A Space Odyssey BOOK to figure out what was going on in Kubrick’s film (though I loved the movie). Clark puts meat on the bones and I like that, and that’s what the 2010 did, too. I enjoyed the movie very much.
I don’t think we need to fear the Europa syndrome… chaos is the natural by-product of every design, regardless of how pristine the concept. The future downtown will have an adequate quotient of chaos and serendipity, and I agree that’s good. (To quote Forrest Gump: “It happens!”)
My fears of core-to-shore sucking the development air from the blossoming rim districts was based on the master plan being implemented in one fell swoop, which it won’t. A modest phase-1 (Boulevard, Convention Center, Transit, & Park) is little more than triage for transplanting I-40, and must happen for wound management. This modest phase-1 will notify the world that OKC is serious about the future, and will probably cause increased (not decreased) development in all the rim districts.
I still hope that many of the missing teeth downtown and in the rim districts will be filled with retail, residential, and other good architecture prior to the corresponding gaps being created in C2S districts.
Dennis, I’m very glad that you’ve joined in.
From what you said above, do I understand that you’re good with the initial Core To Shore being as you described it as not adversely impacting what you’re calling “rim” development and which I’ve dubbed, “Europa.” Is that correct?
Next question: What are your thoughts on the initial trolley route and where should it go to help the rim areas mature?
For me, your opinion counts a very lot.
Hopefully I can assist with this conversation. I don’t check the blogs religiously so bear with halting answers.
Once funding is appropriated for a streetcar, the process will quickly move into the “Alternatives Analysis” phase. COTPA People- I would appreciate it if you left it to me to put in “layman’s terms” please.
Alternatives Analysis consists of a citizens advisory board and technical experts/planners. Very similar to the original MAPS 1 citizen boards.
The route decision will be based on priority locations, connectivity, underground buried utilities, and cost.
The route that is displayed in the Fixed Guideway Study will not most likely be the ultimate streetcar route even though there may be parts of it the coincide with the end product.
Obviously, being efficient will mean more rail per dollar. However, factors such as Trigon utility lines may effect the cost effectiveness of particular route.
The basic goal is to connect OU/Health Sciences, Residential (Deep Deuce/Triangle), Bricktown, Convention District, Arts District, and St. Anthony’s.
Doug,
My bad: I confused your “Demolition Man” world with Europa. We don’t have to worry about OKC becoming a perfect society!… AND I don’t think we need a hands-off-the-rim-districts policy. Yes, I think the initial C2S plan is necessary, and MAPS-3 won’t destroy development momentum in the rim districts (heck, the bad economy hasn’t even been able to do that). However, unbridled development of the C2S master plan would offset the finish-out of key gaps, and I favor metering such development for at least a few years. (I don’t have a clue how you would actually govern such a thing… my free-market nature wants to think it would happen naturally.)
Concerning a trolley system… I really haven’t thought about specifics. It would be nice if each rim district had a spur to the Bricktown/Convention area (or maybe some sort of pretzel loop that doesn’t have a hub?).
There are other new considerations to take in effect such as Transit Oriented Development. Where do you want development to occur? We still have a few large Urban Renewal “super blocks” and these are ideal properties to also consider when planning routes.
The FGS plan called for a circle. There were some technical issues with that outline. It calls for crossing the highway and BNSF freight tracks on 10th “almost a cost prohibitive possibility.”
6th street is also a difficult interchange with a a large expanse of “non-frontage” area, essentially a questionable use of valuable rail.
It is my best guess that the citizens board will have great influence on where lines a best installed once the technical experts have “ruled out” the cost prohibitive areas.
You will probably see Lincoln as a key street, the 4th street highway underpass as the cheapest connection to Lincoln, a key East/West street such as Sheridan, Reno, or the new boulevard, and finally a key North/South street connecting the CBD and Arts to St. Anthony.
Automobile Alley and other areas are also worthy of consideration. But it is very important that the route will be chosen through a very laborious process with citizens and engineers.
It will be important to design a system that can be easily expanded as additional funds become available in the future. Also, do not discount the possibility of private funds to further connect important areas in the future. Federal funds may also play a role.
[...] I don’t think it’s going to get that bad in the New! Improved! Downtown! But look what’s going on inside Doug Loudenback’s head: Left-brain says: “The plans I’ve seen so far look anything but eclectic and chaotic. [...]
I don’t have much to add here, except that all this discussion gets me even more excited about a vibrant city center in my own hometown. Just let me know how I can help!
Bravo Doug! I like the idea of looking into the future in the same manner as we look at the past. You present the romance of the downtown that died decades ago, and we can hope that we are in a position to continue its revival and elevate it to an even greater level than before.
The best 2020 post so far. Makes me wish I had gotten around to writing mine…
Ps what’s this about Dougdawg not being creative? “Bricktown is our Europa.” What an allusion!