Comments on: The Truth Comes Out About MAPS 3 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2009/07/01/the-truth-comes-out-about-maps-3/ The Oklahoman's Steve Lackmeyer covers downtown OKC brick by brick. Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:15:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Steve Lackmeyer http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2009/07/01/the-truth-comes-out-about-maps-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3394 Steve Lackmeyer Mon, 06 Jul 2009 20:18:48 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=1797#comment-3394 Don't be too sure James Don’t be too sure James

]]> By: james evans http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2009/07/01/the-truth-comes-out-about-maps-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3393 james evans Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:48:27 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=1797#comment-3393 "We" is Bennett, McClendon, Nichols, Humphreys, and Cornett (apologies on any name misspellings there). In fact, I'm guessing Cornett just basically does what he is told as opposed to coming up with his own ideas. He's simply the newscaster face for the corporate regime that is running the show. “We” is Bennett, McClendon, Nichols, Humphreys, and Cornett (apologies on any name misspellings there). In fact, I’m guessing Cornett just basically does what he is told as opposed to coming up with his own ideas. He’s simply the newscaster face for the corporate regime that is running the show.

]]> By: Larry http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2009/07/01/the-truth-comes-out-about-maps-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3392 Larry Sun, 05 Jul 2009 09:09:38 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=1797#comment-3392 Steve: Understand the Mayor says that MAPS 3 is not a "done deal" that anything can still be "on the table". But why? What I mean by that, is we were supposed to have voted on MAPS 3 sometime in 2008. The Ford tax increase bought them some time to get everything nailed down (15 months) but the Mayor is sounding like MAPS 3 is still in the planning stages with no firm decisions being made at all. Even with the Core to Shore, new convention center and mass transit are often listed, they still often use disclaimers ("likely to be included", etc.) Someone has been talking about MAPS 3 for years now. In order for the City to make the same misleading claim that these projects can be done without raising taxes, it will have to go into effect before the current Ford tax expires. (Every MAPS tax, was a new tax and therefor a tax increase). Time is running out for that to happen (especially if what the Mayor is saying now about it not being a done deal etc.) Steve:

Understand the Mayor says that MAPS 3 is not a “done deal” that anything can still be “on the table”.

But why? What I mean by that, is we were supposed to have voted on MAPS 3 sometime in 2008. The Ford tax increase bought them some time to get everything nailed down (15 months) but the Mayor is sounding like MAPS 3 is still in the planning stages with no firm decisions being made at all. Even with the Core to Shore, new convention center and mass transit are often listed, they still often use disclaimers (“likely to be included”, etc.) Someone has been talking about MAPS 3 for years now.

In order for the City to make the same misleading claim that these projects can be done without raising taxes, it will have to go into effect before the current Ford tax expires. (Every MAPS tax, was a new tax and therefor a tax increase). Time is running out for that to happen (especially if what the Mayor is saying now about it not being a done deal etc.)

]]> By: Brent http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2009/07/01/the-truth-comes-out-about-maps-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3391 Brent Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:04:51 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=1797#comment-3391 Well, I think I am reasonably convinced now that Mayor Cornett had no nefarious purpose in using the term "we." As Mark also seemed to say, the next step is finding out which council members are on board with the current plan and which aren't and for what reason. Do they have any alternatives or are they just against continuing the MAPS tax (to allow other areas to grow, to save the cost of the tax...perhaps something else)? Personally, I don't care where or from whom a good idea comes from, if that person is 85 or 25, it does not matter to me. Being a naturalized Oklahoman myself of about a decade now, I may not have been around during the first MAPS vote either (although my wife was) but I have done everything I can to get up to speed on the history of our city/state and I can say that this is an exciting time and place to be and look forward to what this city has in its future. In my opinion, I hope Steve keeps asking the tough questions of everyone, as I'm sure he will, it's his job. Of course, the tenor and tone of questions is important, but that is hard to convey in print. I don't think anyone can dispute the fact Steve wants what is best for OKC. We can only get the best result for our city after we examine multiple points of view and discuss many of the possible issues that can arise from another MAPS program. Nothing is a sure thing and another MAPS program isn't either. But I'm confident that we can get the best ballot possible as long as we don't stop asking tough questions of everyone, include Mayor Mick. As far as I'm concerned, these have been some great blogs and comments recently. No matter what side you are defending, many of you have some great things to say and I usually look forward to reading them. Thanks for providing this outlet Steve. Well, I think I am reasonably convinced now that Mayor Cornett had no nefarious purpose in using the term “we.” As Mark also seemed to say, the next step is finding out which council members are on board with the current plan and which aren’t and for what reason. Do they have any alternatives or are they just against continuing the MAPS tax (to allow other areas to grow, to save the cost of the tax…perhaps something else)?

Personally, I don’t care where or from whom a good idea comes from, if that person is 85 or 25, it does not matter to me. Being a naturalized Oklahoman myself of about a decade now, I may not have been around during the first MAPS vote either (although my wife was) but I have done everything I can to get up to speed on the history of our city/state and I can say that this is an exciting time and place to be and look forward to what this city has in its future.

In my opinion, I hope Steve keeps asking the tough questions of everyone, as I’m sure he will, it’s his job. Of course, the tenor and tone of questions is important, but that is hard to convey in print. I don’t think anyone can dispute the fact Steve wants what is best for OKC. We can only get the best result for our city after we examine multiple points of view and discuss many of the possible issues that can arise from another MAPS program. Nothing is a sure thing and another MAPS program isn’t either. But I’m confident that we can get the best ballot possible as long as we don’t stop asking tough questions of everyone, include Mayor Mick. As far as I’m concerned, these have been some great blogs and comments recently. No matter what side you are defending, many of you have some great things to say and I usually look forward to reading them. Thanks for providing this outlet Steve.

]]> By: Pat http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2009/07/01/the-truth-comes-out-about-maps-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3390 Pat Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:02:10 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=1797#comment-3390 Whoever "Chris" is, he must not have been old enough to see Bricktown before MAPS. All it had going for it was "potential". Bricktown had dreams of being a version of West End BEFORE MAPS and now is even better BECAUSE of MAPS. It drive me crazy when young people act like they know what our City was like when they were in Junior High. Whoever “Chris” is, he must not have been old enough to see Bricktown before MAPS. All it had going for it was “potential”. Bricktown had dreams of being a version of West End BEFORE MAPS and now is even better BECAUSE of MAPS. It drive me crazy when young people act like they know what our City was like when they were in Junior High.

]]> By: Mark http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2009/07/01/the-truth-comes-out-about-maps-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3389 Mark Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:48:46 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=1797#comment-3389 How about rephrasing the fundamental question Steve raised here and which still needs to be answered: If projects aren't off the table then where is the "table" and who is sitting at it? Who will do the triage? How about rephrasing the fundamental question Steve raised here and which still needs to be answered: If projects aren’t off the table then where is the “table” and who is sitting at it? Who will do the triage?

]]> By: Matt http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2009/07/01/the-truth-comes-out-about-maps-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3388 Matt Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:59:58 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=1797#comment-3388 Steve, enjoy your work a lot and I applaud your passion for the city. Wish there was more people like us on this blog in the city. Always look forward to your columns on Tuesday... Steve, enjoy your work a lot and I applaud your passion for the city. Wish there was more people like us on this blog in the city. Always look forward to your columns on Tuesday…

]]> By: Matt http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2009/07/01/the-truth-comes-out-about-maps-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3387 Matt Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:55:55 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=1797#comment-3387 Steve Noticed you skipped my comment, that' OK, no hurt feelings. I appreciate Jeff Speck's report and no doubt, he makes all kinds of great points. However, in architecture and urban design there is no "one" solution. There are many solutions, that is why there are competitions and everyone brings in a different idea. I have a friend that I went to school with at OU who went on to get his Masters of Urban Design at Columbia. He doesn't have the credentials that Speck has but I would say he was the most talented of our bunch back at school. He believes Core 2 Shore has to happen and it would be great thing for the city. I would become more of a place than a space. As for comparing us to Dallas, I am done with it. We aren't Dallas and hopefully we never will be. Let's go the route of Austin and grow downtown and create different venues. It is vibrant and beautiful and maybe OKC can get there. Steve

Noticed you skipped my comment, that’ OK, no hurt feelings. I appreciate Jeff Speck’s report and no doubt, he makes all kinds of great points. However, in architecture and urban design there is no “one” solution. There are many solutions, that is why there are competitions and everyone brings in a different idea. I have a friend that I went to school with at OU who went on to get his Masters of Urban Design at Columbia. He doesn’t have the credentials that Speck has but I would say he was the most talented of our bunch back at school. He believes Core 2 Shore has to happen and it would be great thing for the city. I would become more of a place than a space.

As for comparing us to Dallas, I am done with it. We aren’t Dallas and hopefully we never will be. Let’s go the route of Austin and grow downtown and create different venues. It is vibrant and beautiful and maybe OKC can get there.

]]> By: Steve Lackmeyer http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2009/07/01/the-truth-comes-out-about-maps-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3386 Steve Lackmeyer Fri, 03 Jul 2009 03:09:47 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=1797#comment-3386 Chris, I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I've not questioned the value of the river at all. I can tell you that the mayor is not talking about the river being a part of the MAPS 3 ballot. Time and again he's indicating that the likely items will be Core to Shore, a convention center and transit. I can also tell you that people are being told that these are the items that the "city leadership" have already settled on. And that's where I start questioning the "we." Because truth be told, from what I've been able to learn, there isn't a much of a "we" on anything right now. And that's what I'm trying to tell you now - and I'm also questioning how this "we" might end up being imposed. I don't have doubts about this concensus. I know there isn't a concensus and that's what I'm reporting to you. I've been in this position before. I recall very vividly being ridiculed and dismissed as I began reporting that significant problems were being encounted during construction of the downtown library. It took a year before the city finally agreed there was a problem, a lawsuit was filed, and the dispute over construction flaws continued until about two weeks ago. I'm not here to be honorable - I'm here to make sure questions are asked, encourage discussions about our future, and do my best to inform the readers. As for questions about Core to Shore, I would encourage you to read the Jeff Speck report at www.okc.gov. Chris, I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. I’ve not questioned the value of the river at all. I can tell you that the mayor is not talking about the river being a part of the MAPS 3 ballot. Time and again he’s indicating that the likely items will be Core to Shore, a convention center and transit.
I can also tell you that people are being told that these are the items that the “city leadership” have already settled on. And that’s where I start questioning the “we.” Because truth be told, from what I’ve been able to learn, there isn’t a much of a “we” on anything right now.
And that’s what I’m trying to tell you now – and I’m also questioning how this “we” might end up being imposed.
I don’t have doubts about this concensus. I know there isn’t a concensus and that’s what I’m reporting to you.
I’ve been in this position before. I recall very vividly being ridiculed and dismissed as I began reporting that significant problems were being encounted during construction of the downtown library. It took a year before the city finally agreed there was a problem, a lawsuit was filed, and the dispute over construction flaws continued until about two weeks ago.
I’m not here to be honorable – I’m here to make sure questions are asked, encourage discussions about our future, and do my best to inform the readers.
As for questions about Core to Shore, I would encourage you to read the Jeff Speck report at http://www.okc.gov.

]]> By: Chris http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2009/07/01/the-truth-comes-out-about-maps-3/comment-page-1/#comment-3385 Chris Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:42:29 +0000 http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/?p=1797#comment-3385 Steve, I applaud you for doing a great job. I've read many of your articles about OKC and I appreciate the love you have for ths city, as well as the great service you provide. However, I'm not going to get in a debate as to what constitutes "honorable" journalism. I have to say, that based on the quote you provided, you are providing doubt without any substance. From what your readers can tell, your "thesis statement," (for lack of a better term), is based off an interpretation of the word "we." I'm sorry, but that's not enough for me to doubt the potential of the Oklahoma River. No, I don't have any facts to back this up, but I know the type of OKC want to build, and the Oklahoma River is a major part. At this point and time, I'm sorry, but I can't follow you in your doubts unless something more substantial is presented. I believe the Oklahoma City River is a great thing to invest in and a way to unlock a much better, expanded future for the city. It has a great chance to become what many other developments could not. It has a chance to be truly unique, that's all I'm saying. Steve, I applaud you for doing a great job. I’ve read many of your articles about OKC and I appreciate the love you have for ths city, as well as the great service you provide. However, I’m not going to get in a debate as to what constitutes “honorable” journalism.
I have to say, that based on the quote you provided, you are providing doubt without any substance. From what your readers can tell, your “thesis statement,” (for lack of a better term), is based off an interpretation of the word “we.” I’m sorry, but that’s not enough for me to doubt the potential of the Oklahoma River. No, I don’t have any facts to back this up, but I know the type of OKC want to build, and the Oklahoma River is a major part. At this point and time, I’m sorry, but I can’t follow you in your doubts unless something more substantial is presented.

I believe the Oklahoma City River is a great thing to invest in and a way to unlock a much better, expanded future for the city. It has a great chance to become what many other developments could not. It has a chance to be truly unique, that’s all I’m saying.

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