Will You Have Your Say?

I am still of the belief that there is a large multi-purpose outdoor facility planned. This can be used for MLS soccer, X-Games, high school football playoffs, special games and outdoor concerts. Pizza Hut park in Dallas, and HD Arena in L.A. are the models.

I agree with Steve. It is time to petition your Councilman or Councilwoman, as well as Mayor Cornett and the Chamber, as to the transit component of MAPS-3. They already know that the people want something done, but the actual form this component takes may still be in debate.

Remember, MAPS-3 will be a $1 billion dollar proposal, COTPA has a very weak hand, and our leaders have already heard from the rail fans.

The transit component of MAPS-3 has the potential to impact all sectors of Oklahoma City, and the suburbs too. Yes, it has to be done, and now. But it also has to be done for the future, some 20-25 years into the future.

Let’s get going, people.

John,

You do understand a light-rail (and I’m only speculating that is the system you’re talking about) transit system by itself is a “$1 billion dollar proposal” right?

A better managed bus system would be far more cost effective in both start up cost and maintenance. Being from the greater DC area and now back in Oklahoma it seems logical for us to look at ways to improve quality of life, but people in Oklahoma dont really understand the actual costs of keeping up with such a heavy endeavor. A revamped bus system could cost as much as much as $400,000,000 dollars and $15 million a year in maintenance.

Let’s pump all our energy into Core to Shore and the convention center in the MAPS 3 initiative (including extending the canal). If we’ve learned anything from the Oklahoma River disaster in the past few months it’s that we really dont need to rush anything, continue what we have been doing and take small bites out of modernizing OKC every 5-10 years. If we try to devour all our ambitious energy at once it will backfire and every, I mean EVERYTHING will come to a halt.

These initiatives work a lot like a market does, it can only work with public confidence, and once the confidence dries up so does the capital for the projects that the citizens want to shell out. Except in this case it could take a whole generation to repair the damage of biting off more than we can chew.

Get the masses to downtown with C2S and the convention center, bridge the gap to a light rail mass trasit with a united bus effort from the suburbs, make the city more walkable, work with the Devon’s, Chesapeaks, and Sandridge’s of the area to improve private capital and take slow methodical, well thought out steps toward improving the cities “cool” image, invest heavily into the “School of Rock” and the local music scene, and the people will come, in 5-7 years when all this finishes we can start adding capstones to the growth and let the new industry exponentially build off itself.

That’s when things get exciting, and we can talk about football stadiums, mass transit, MLS, heavy investment in public art, an iconic landmark, redeveloped high risers, new malls, etc, etc.

As much as I hate to admit it, Joe is unfortunately on to something if I put on the realism hat. I really would like to see a light rail system in OKC, but light rail is certainly a huge expense. Light rail is generally run on a narrow gauge rail system, thus current rail lines could not be used. It would be perhaps much more than $1 bil. to build one from scratch. But if we were to use the current rail lines, such as an east coast (Boston-Providence, etc.) commuter system, I’m not sure if that is what people are looking for, and is still very costly. Those are usually used to connect longer distances (probably Edmond-OKC-Norman as the most logical destinations here), not the quick close-together stops I believe people are looking for when they say we want light rail.

Also, I’m up for quite a few suggestions for MAPS3, but the state fair park exhibition hall idea is a non-starter with me at least. We just recently passed a state fair improvement vote and if they needed it then, and it can’t be paid for without a new source of funds, they should have thought of it at the time.

As an aside Steve, not to be cynical, but in your experience how much does it really matter for any mayor or councilman to receive even a few dozen e-mails on a subject as complex as MAPS3 will be? Are we really likely to change anyone’s mind at this point? Or, to borrow an analogy from the this subject, has the train already left the station here? It seems that the only public input session to be had will have been the surveys sent out over the last year to random OKC citizens.

Brent, LRT isn’t being considered by MAPS3, Modern Streetcar is, which is in the alternatives analysis stage. Current LRT systems use standard gauge track, the reason they can’t run on existing track is safety requirements, as LRT vehicles are not rated for impacts with freight/commuter vehicles. The city and the region (Regional Transit Dialogue, RTD) are both not considering LRT in any form. You are correct that Commuter rail is the most efficient option, however, MAPS3(Oklahoma City) would not want to pay for that type of system. That would be a regional approach, and it’s being examined by the RTD.

Ryan (for Casey)

P.S. If this MAPS project gets too close to that $1B number, it will have a harder time passing. With that, I feel there is still plenty of room to get a good number of projects in the mix; transit being one of those. While the convention center is a great project, it takes up way too much of the pie. I wish there was room to expand.

are you getting edgier or am I being more observant? either way, i like it.

Yes Joe and Brent, I’m with you.

I want to see 3-4x more bus and/or rubber-tire trolley service in OKC. Right now, as we all know, the current system is infrequent, unreliable, and does not serve inter-sector travelers well (i.e., Baptist Hospital to Mercy).

My suggestions would include;

1. 20-30 new rubber-tire trolleys (CNG powered).

2. Building “mini-hubs” in each city quadrant, so that someone who lives near Wilshire and Broadway, and works at NW Expressway and MacArthur, does not have to change buses downtown.

3. A grid-based route structure for the center city, covering Ward 6, the Capitol, and OU Health Sciences Center.

4. A system of “Downtown Commuter” routes to serve Guthrie, Edmond, Norman, Moore, Shawnee, Mid-Del, El Reno, Yukon, Tri-Cities, Mustang, and Piedmont, with the goal of reducing commuter traffic on the highways.

These ideas do not involve light rail, so they should be less-expensive to implement.

I have said before that I support building a new convention center, but not the full-blown building that some have proposed. I think we should build something that can accomodate our current needs and some growth, but leave room for expansion. That would keep us under the $400 million figure and leave room for other important projects.

QUOTE: “As an aside Steve, not to be cynical, but in your experience how much does it really matter for any mayor or councilman to receive even a few dozen e-mails on a subject as complex as MAPS3 will be? Are we really likely to change anyone’s mind at this point? Or, to borrow an analogy from the this subject, has the train already left the station here? It seems that the only public input session to be had will have been the surveys sent out over the last year to random OKC citizens.”

It matters. I’ve seen it make a difference in the past. The Bricktown fire station design is an example of public outcry making a difference….

“I have said before that I support building a new convention center, but not the full-blown building that some have proposed. I think we should build something that can accommodate our current needs and some growth, but leave room for expansion. That would keep us under the $400 million figure and leave room for other important projects.”

The Ford Center in all it’s glory WITH the new upgrades will not have cost any more than $250 million. That figure includes the practice center that’s not even a part of the Ford.

I dont think it’s out of the question to have a state of the art convention center for under 400 mill. I think the hypothetical computer generated presentation of OKC in 10 years had the building called the “Rose Rock Center”. I like it.

As PR Chair, sorry I missed your Midtown Rotary meeting Steve. I also just read about all of this Jessica Alba mess…is this all for real??? What a funny story. Curious to see how it all pans out.

Yes, Casey it was for real. You’ve missed a lot of Hollywood nonsense this week. But by reading your blog, I suspect you wouldn’t trade experiences.

Hi Steve,

What an excellent idea to encourage your readers to contact Mayor Cornett about their MAPS 3 wishes. As a dutiful reader, I did as you said and wrote the Mayor a long email last night. I just posted that very letter, slightly enhanced, to my blog, which you can access by clicking on my name above or at http://www.oklachusetts.blogspot.com. Thanks again for getting this ball rolling.

I am writing to remind those above that we have a plan. It’s called the Fixed Guideway Study. MTP has embraced parts of the study as a logical and affordable start to improve our transit system. Quite frankly however, you could start with any part of that plan and end up with substantive improvements. We promote the modern streetcar and improved bus as a the most logical and reasonable downpayment on something better. It is outlined at http://www.mtpokc.com website. The real question is whether the transit \component\ being touted is constructive and substantive- or just a few more buses and routes. Is this \component\ complimentary to other MAPS 3 items or is it a token gesture. 3 years of polling show people want substantive transit improvements. Is our council as committed? That is the real question.

Jeff, I think you are partially proving my point. Although all the studies say OKC citizens want a transit component to the next MAPS, there has not been an actual proposal. People say they want “rail” in OKC, but the definition of “rail” is quite subjective. Are we talking commuter rail, light rail, street car, something else? If OKC was to adopt the MTP proposal, I have a hunch that the generic support of a “rail” component would decrease as the people who thought the “rail” element would be a commuter system or something else take their support away. The reverse could certainly be true though as sometimes people actually give more support when there is a specific proposal on the table. I have not seen a study which addresses support for any specific rail component and its costs. I’m not saying the MTP proposal is less valid because of that, but unless this has already been studied by the city, I do not know if we have the time to get that proposal on a MAPS3 ballot, which is likely coming up later this year. This is more complicated than the Bricktown firehouse issue which was changed after public debate (hence my question as to whether MAPS3 can really be altered at this juncture or have the major elements already been established).

We are getting close to the point where these issues would have had to already have been addressed for a rail element to be included in a MAPS vote. In any event, as to the actual MTP proposal, if the true public costs of a street car system for the routes suggested are actually only $100 mil. as suggested, it would have my vote as part of a comprehensive MAPS3 vote which included a central park, convention center and Bricktown canal extension. If we assume a $1 bil. MAPS3 vote, we have $100 mil. (streetcar) plus $400 mil. (convention center), and that leaves about $500 mil. for a central park, a canal extension and perhaps some to improve the bus system. I think that is doable, but I still want to see actual numbers.