Getting Braum's Attention
A couple of years ago developers and downtown leaders hoped they could make an impression on Drew Braum and convince him to open a Braum’s Dairy and Fresh Market to the corner of NE 3 and Oklahoma. Sadly, Braum couldn’t be convinced that downtown had the rooftops necessary to make the investment.
History makes me question whether everything argument that could be made for a Braum’s was made, or whether the best location was pitched. For years Braum’s had a restaurant at the Agnew exit along I-40 just southwest of downtown and it depended purely on highway travel.
What’s at stake, of course, isn’t just an ice cream and burger joint. The Braum’s market includes fresh meats, produce, dairy, cereal, snacks and bakery goods – all items craved by downtowners.
So, let’s be a bit provocative, shall we? This is all, of course, very flattering to Braum’s. I’m simply giving voice to a need expressed over and over again by readers.
So, let’s start by throwing out some alternate locations. Assuming the economy thaws soon, maybe the Candlewood Inn and Suites can be brought be back to life. The development at Lincoln and Sheridan included a retail pad, and it faces I-40 (both present and future) and I-235 – twice the Interstate frontage of the old store. And it is within walking distance of Deep Deuce or a very quick drive at worst for all of downtown. And I suspect the Candlewood Inn folks might want to re-examine their decision to put this project on hold as word gets out on the street that the new Bricktown Hampton Inn is one of the best performers in the chain.
This is just one idea. Before we go any further with this blogosphere campaign, I want to hear ideas from you that might be pitched to Drew Braum. Next up – a poll, followed by an old-fashioned digital letter writing that will show just how many of you would like Drew to join the neighborhood.
Urban Neighbors, I expect you to be very active with this discussion.
- Steve
Thank you for joining our conversation on OKC Central. We encourage your discussion but ask that you stay within the bounds of our commenting and posting policy.
Comments
Wow, I’ve never had any such experiences at the Braum’s I frequent. I would assume that the Bricktown Design Committee or Downtown Urban Design Committee would request a tweaking of their standard design to suit a more urban context.
To me it seems like the ideal location is on the SE corner of Walnut and NE 3rd. You are right next to deep deuce, right down the street from the Lofts and Brownstones and the Leslie and two blocks away from Block 42 and The Hill. It would also be very easy to get on and off the highway from there going north and south so that would make it convenient for people heading home. If there really is a problem with being hassled by the homeless, like LR claims, make it face Walnut with the parking lot closer to the street and have better lighting.
As a downtown resident, worker and property owner, at this point and time I’d prefer Braum’s to stay out of downtown. They can’t even get their original suburban store concept right. Most stores are dirty and are notorious for slow service. Store designs are gaudy and bad for even suburbia, workers I find are often lazy. Color scheme horrible. Don’t even get me started on their marketing. Now I love me some Braum’s food, but would prefer to continue going to the one on 17th and Classen to get my Braums fix. You mention let’s get proactive in the article. I’d rather see Braum’s get a little more proactive with their own company before possibly bringing more suburbia to downtown. If they can’t realize their is a demand downtown and what an urban concept looks like (heck the 17th and Classen store should be more urban than it is), then I don’t want them coming downtown until they can get some inner city locations right.
I live on 3rd and Russell M Perry and I would agree with Gary that a good location for a Braum’s would be along Walnut. Having lived in the area for quite a while I would almost guarantee that a grocery store would do very well in that location. i know several of my neighbors and they would be ecstatic to have a store that close. You have to keep in mind the closest grocery store now is on 23rd and Penn which isn’t exactly convenient.
i would love to support braums, but i would much rather see something like a whole foods market go in downtown. i want organic and variety. since these are the things that are important to me, i couldn’t see myself regularly shopping a braums. there would be the occasion i might need to pick up a few items there quickly, but i want a grocer that can fulfill my entire shopping list. braums just doesn’t have variety and they are really small. it’s a start though.
Braum’s is not the right fit for downtown. It is an extremely inflexible operation without a clue how to appeal to sophisticated tastes. This is a really, really dumb idea.
Braum’s are terrible operations. I would rather drive a few miles out of downtown for groceries than routinely shop at Braum’s. Every time I go into a Braum’s I wonder how they stay in business while providing such terrible customer service.
Steve, what I don’t understand is why there isn’t discussion (any discussion), regarding a real Public Market. Public Markets are buildings that are typically owned by the city. The City has an oversight board who carefully reviews applications and rents stalls to “mom and pop”. These board members typically base their decisions on quality of product and an attempt at ethnic food diversity. Think mega multi-cultural building. The space tenants are attracted to the offer as they share the overhead costs of the entire building and have a sustained flow of pedestrians.
This concept is wildly successful in downtown Little Rock on their riverfront. The facility provides a “one stop” shopping experience for prepared foods as well as raw product. Many of the vendors also cater. It is in essence is a grocery store with prepared foods of all types. The city could easily incorporate such a building into the proposed Central Park area or redevelop an existing downtown building. Little Rock also uses the exterior area of their building on Fridays and Saturdays for their downtown farmer’s market.
One think that I feel Urban Neighbors has observed is the desire for more “mom and pop and diversity of fresh product”- not necessarily a “Whole Foods” mega store. Plus, if Whole Foods were built anywhere in the Metro, it would be a destination and transcend specific location. No one would care where it was, even if it wasn’t downtown,they would still go there.
We need to be thinking out of the “box”. The Little Rock concept is in the middle of their convention district. It serves downtown office workers, weekenders, and even tourists. More importantly, it has completely resolved the need for a “big box” grocery store and provides an exciting solution for those who live downtown.–Jeff Bezdek
If you actually want a successful market to FINALLY come into downtown, I really think that the demographics are ripe for a WHOLE FOODS or even a TRADER JOES! I live at the Deep Deuce and really hate having to drive up to Penn Square for my food. Not only does OKC NOT have any healthy supermarket chains, but the lack of a real market period in downtown just annoys me.
Coincidence that Braum’s is a huge advertiser for the Oklahoman, and that this blog post appears? Steve, you’re losing credibility with this junk.
The great thing about downtown is the diversity of food and shopping. Every place I eat downtown is not cookie-cutter corporate-sanitized impersonal machinery – but instead run by humans who care about my health and safety.
Simply put, that can’t be said about Braum’s, no matter how much in advertising dollars they throw at the Oklahoman.
Braum’s is a dismal place to visit. Every time I encounter a ‘braumite’ I understand the current state of our educational system. It’s depressing.
Here’s my benchmark from now on. The very day that a Braum’s appears downtown, that community is over. It will have resigned is status as cool and interesting, and will have given over to homogenized blandness, leading to it’s decline.
Much like the Oklahoman.
Oh come on Urban Dweller, do you really think I gear my writing based on advertisers? If so, Cox Communmications, AT&T and others must really be scratching their heads over my past reporting. The hostility I’m hearing toward a Braum’s market being a part of downtown is new to me and doesn’t match what I’ve heard from people face to face.
I’m amused though by the reactions I’m hearing today to my posts – you seem to be saying I’m too gushing and nice to a subject, while on a different topic I’m accused of always being negative.
This, my friends, is a good day for me.
Now that I’ve finished my at home chores (putting up a swing set for the kids), I’m off to have fun.
Tomorrow you’ll be reading some entries by guest bloggers. Be nice to them and save the rotton eggs and tomatoes for when I get back!
- Steve
Braum’s is what it is…but it’s locally-owned versus being a national chain like Whole Foods or Trader Joe’s. Those places are great, but not likely to come here anytime soon. In the mean time, we should try to attract any kind of market we can get in order to prove its viability to the national retailers.
Say what you want about Braums’s, but they’re a mainstay in Oklahoma and throughout the southwest. A Braum’s restaurant with fresh market downtown (designed with some urban nuance) can only help downtown OKC’s quality of life.
I think most of us would be fine with a Braum’s coming to downtown, but if the thought is that this will satisfy the need for a downtown grocery, I think that is misplaced. A Braum’s Market would be fine for some items, but it is not really a “full-service” grocery. So if a Braum’s store opens in downtown, that is great for the time being, but we can’t let that stop us from continuing to work on bringing a true grocery store to the downtown area.
I pitched this to the real estate broker for Braums years ago and they were still contimplating moving the Agnew store. They would be a great fit downtown, as much as Sonic. These are Oklahoma based companies and they should have a presence in the re-shaping of our brand and image. And for the last time, we will never get a Whole Foods or any other market like that until we change our Liq. laws!!!!! They all sell wine & beer in there stores and we cannot do that with our laws! And we do not have the needed population to support a 50,000 sq ft mega organic store, be cause we are a Walmart test market. Also please keep in mind that they do not sell diet coke and other yuppy items needed by our popluation to survive. So you would still have to go to Walmart! sorry the truth sucks…
Service and cleanliness need help, but the food is great and relatively well-priced (ice cream is very well priced). They recently hired a well-known architect to come up with their newest store scheme, so I wouldn’t put it past them to actually complete a good urban design if they saw the opportunity.
Oh, and in relation to 17th & Classen, while it’s not the best of service, there are a few extremely helpful employees and I’ve never had to walk through anyone begging for money or pushing drugs.
I’d rather that Candle Wood Suites stay dead anyways. I don’t want it. If they can commit to a better design, then I’d think about it.
As is, the pad sites for that development are mearly a coverup for the on-street parking lot. Yay for urban enviroment. And the funny thing is. This one actually is under the jurisdiction of Bricktown Proper, not Lower Bricktown.
Anyways. Braum’s would be good for Downtown I think, as long as their store was adapted to the downtown vibe and needs. And umm, all the Braum’s I’ve been to have windows open to their parking lot.
Your problem is a very rare one and I do not believe that Braum’s are a druggie addicting store. Cmon. Really? You base your negative outlook of the whole Braum’s franchise because one of their stores is in an unsafe enviroment? Grow up.
Surely we could get one of those (Marketside) in OKC. Funny how you have to allow MORE alcohol content to get a healthy organic grocery store.
Speaking of which, WHY is that the case? Why don’t grocery stores in OKC sell wine and real beer? What is the deal?
Yes, Steve, I’m afraid I do think that your job influences what you write here.
Case in point, you’ve turned your site over today to a PR flak who controls a significant amount of advertising revenue to your employer. This is a shocking and obvious conflict of interest.
While he’s not discussing today the wonderful benefits of his client’s products, and while I appreciate deadCenter, handing their space to Rob Crissinger would embarrass any credible journalist.
The number of knowledgeable and interesting people whom deadCenter could have put forth for this information is significant, but you reached out to the one guy who also happens to be your employer’s big-time money man. Either your sucking up to Schnake Turnbo Frank on behalf of your employer, or you are too lazy to place a call and get someone objective and independent. Man up, Steve.
Am I being tough? You bet I am. People need to hold the Oklahoman to task as well. If you can’t see the problem here then the problem with the Oklahoman is worse than I thought.
Be a journalist. Avoid even the hint of conflict of interest.
Urban Dweller woke up on the wrong side of the bed…
I think it would be impossible for Steve to avoid any conflict if you use such strict limits – what if one person had advertised one time. Should that disqualify him or her?
Yo, Urban dweller… I think I just saw Elvis! No, it was just one of Cheney’s rich oil buddies… Oops, no, it was a nasty Republican lobbyist.
Say dude, what’s that chip on your shoulder?
Will, there is a Homeland at 18th and Classen, it’s a mile and half closer than 23rd and Penn.
Aimee, what suburban town are you living in? You do realize there is a Whole Foods (WF) in Tulsa right? Heck, there are non-liquor selling WF stores in New York, Colorado and other states that do just fine. It has nothing to do with our liquor laws. Heck, even company officials are rumored to say we are in the works for one and on their 2 year real estate plan to secure a site. OKC has a pent up demand for a large, quality and/or organic grocer as our market is starved for such. We could easily support a couple of them. Furthermore, I don’t think we’ve been a test market for WalMart for quite some time, they’ve been testing other concepts elsewhere the last few years, heck they even have an URBAN CONCEPT.
I went to WF a couple of weeks ago and asked the cashier when they were going to open one in OKC. She said “It’s funny you ask that. Our Regional Manager was down here this week and said they are going to open one, but have to find the perfect location first.” I have seen two other people share the same exact story.
Urban Dweller, I’m always curious about attacks on my credibility by people with fake names and phony email addresses. You’re entitled to your opinion. But people who know me can testify I’m not afraid to annoy friends (Jeff Bezdek, care to comment here?).
As for the guest blogs, are you even sure you understand what Rob’s job entails? I don’t know of any STF clients using Rob’s firm or Rob himself to advertise in The Oklahoman. My basis for inviting him to guest blog is that he works and plays downtown, is very articulate and quite frankly, is willing to do so.
By your definition, I should deprive anyone who has any business relationship at all with The Oklahoman a voice in the downtown discussion. So say goodbye to coverage of Devon Energy, Bricktown,
For what it’s worth, suburban homebuilder Jeff Click is set to be yet another guest blogger. I’m sure you’ll find a conflict there as well.
What’s interesting is the mere existence of this thread disproves your original complaint. If this were part of some conspiracy to suck up to an advertiser, I’d probably be in big trouble for the criticisms that are posted in this thread.
I think you’ve hijacked this discussion as far as it can go. You don’t like what I’m writing and that’s fine. Let’s get back to whether Braum’s is a store people would like to see downtown.
Steve, yeah I realize that but it’s pretty bad. Sadly, the Wal Mart Neighborhood Market on 23rd and Penn is much better.
I’m not saying a Whole Foods wouldn’t be great but right now we have nothing. It seems that Braum’s building a location is much more likely than Whole Foods building one.
Wow. I just read the comments by Urban Dweller and have to say, thank you for the ego boost! Now that I’m a big time money man, I promise I won’t forget the little people who made it possible : )
Oh yeah, it should be noted that public relations and advertising are not the same thing.
We’ve heard that Steve and Rob Crissinger both collect Troll Dolls. And I don’t think it’s any coincidence that a big Troll Doll convention is coming downtown. Also, many Trolls work at Braum’s, and that’s why they always mess up your order. Coincidence? We don’t think so…
People of Oklahoma unite….All Urban Dweller’s light your torches, retrieve your pitchforks. Today we march. Mr. Lackmeyer, might I scoff in your face. How dare you force the likes of Robert Crissinger upon the good people of our fair city. He and his ruinous ways. Steve, I see why you chose the likes of Robert. The eyes alone make my heart flutter in a manly sort of way. But we should all take heed to the verbal brilliance of Mr. Dweller and “Man-Up.” Dweller, I am here for you. I feel your inner turmoil. David Hyde Pierce did it, and you can to. Shout from the rooftops your man crush for Rob. I have an article of Mr. Lackmeyer’s in my briefcase from 05 that still fills me with joy. We are out there….and we hear your cries.
OK Lost Ogle, you must admit, my visitor comments are far more out there today than anything you can garner on a post admiring Look@OKC’s swimsuit issue. 
I guess I could hope we get one of those Wal-Mart Marketside. But I should wouldn’t shop there– it’s a Wal-Mart. I don’t like how they do business, and I refuse to shop there, no matter how convenient they are.
But, we should be working to get any and all of HEB Central Market, Whole Foods, Marketside, Trader Joe’s, Braum’s, etc. in downtown.
The lack of a large grocery store is old news and is not required for successful living conditions in the Downtown area. Downtown Dallas has very limited grocery availability and the population living downtown is much larger and continues to grow.
Downtown Oklahoma City is looking great and it only needs more affordable housing for the younger people whom would like to live there. Living in the inner city is much more about housing prices, product, and entertainment than a full service grocery. Three of my four children live in the inner city of Dallas and Chicago and they live there because they like it and the life style it offers them.
Jay, you just copy + pasted the same comment for all of the Braums posts. I’m starting to think you hate Braums. How could you?!?
I returned to Oklahoma very recently. I wanted to visit relative and friends there and put flowers on the grave of my 104 year old uncle who died two years ago in Henryetta. I had visited him several times and took him over to Braum’s for lunch or dinner. That was my first experience with their business.
On this trip through a lot of Oklahoma, my daughter and I stopped at every Braum’s until she realized that she might just as well stop before I even asked. It all began in the 1930′s when my father managed the filling station directly inside of the stockyard gate. I would go to see him at work and he would give me enough money to buy us a chocolate sundae or chocolate malt at the drugstore just outside of the gate. Until he died and until my Uncle Woodie died in Henryetta, I would take them to the best ice cream parlor for a chocolate malt, etc.
I live in Alaska now and we no longer have a dairy operating here. Every drop of milk and almost all farm produce is brought in by barge or airplane. I’m 81 now so I don’t imagine that I will live to see a Braum’s or other place operating here. We do have the franchise places that charge about $2.00 per dip of ice cream which we happily pay.
As much as I love the beauty and land that is Alaska, I do think for a few moments about returning to the state of my birth.
It would be great to see a quality grocery store in the area. However, Braum’s seems incapable of building safe and secure locations. If you’ve been to the Braum’s at 17th and Classen then you’ve suffered through the drug dealers demanding cash from you as you enter and leave.
The Braum’s locations seem architected to provide cover to these miscreants. On Classen the building has no windows on the entire west and south sides where the parking is, and virtually no night-time lighting. These criminals hide over there, out of site of the employees, and prey on the customers entering and leaving. ‘Begging’ for money isn’t a crime in Okc, but the strong sense of danger and intimidation architected into the Braum’s store gives the sensation of being robbed, with Braum’s complicity.
Employees seem indifferent to the problem, and make no effort to shoo these people away once notified. I can’t blame them, at their pay rate it’s not worth their lives. I used to bring it up to a manager every single time I went, but got no action. Naturally I quit going to Braum’s. It’s not safe, and it’s built that way.
Is this problem better downtown than it is in Gatewood? No. Visit the library on a Saturday afternoon, but don’t do so without a pack of smokes to hand out or you won’t make it in. Visit Coney Island on Main after 5pm, but be prepared to have a spare hot dog on you when you leave. You’ll get yelled at if you don’t.
I don’t want us to just work with Braum’s to get a downtown location, we need Braum’s to be involved in creating safe and secure locations, including for their existing spots. They must visibly make better effort to insure the safety of their patrons. Otherwise a downtown location will be one very lonely Braum’s.