Good coverage of this issue. The House is out of control. We must hold these people accountable.

I’m a staunch conservative and typically feel right at home in Oklahoma. I could see both sides of the issue with the stem cell vote and initially opposed it. The more I read about it though, the more I began to change my mind. I did not change my mind about stem cells in general, however. So, I was glad Henry vetoed it. But I did not hold my contempt for the Legislature. Then I read about this today. Wow. I am in shock. Exactly how uptight are the people in the Legislature??

Exactly as uptight as the John Birch Society.

After reading the article in the paper this morning, I retract my post from last night. I cannot believe that a band member had the audacity to wear a communist t-shirt to the Capitol. I do not blame anyone for voting against the resolution. They were justified in doing so. Though I am glad that the governor stepped in and will issue an executive order. That’s a good “compromise.” The band, as excellent ambassadors of the state, have the state rock song. But they also were shown there are consequences to their actions.

People have to be respectful of where they are and the people they are around; they have to be respectful of the culture of their location. When in church, don’t wear provative clothing; when in Japan, do not point at people; when in the Oklahoma State Capitol, do not wear a communist t-shirt.

Brian, I’ll be curious to see others’ reactions to your comment.

Steve, I almost didn’t post anything. But, my feelings changed after getting some more information this morning. So, I thought I should say so.

But, I absolutely agree that legislators are elected to vote and when they don’t show up, I have issues with that. If they don’t want to cast the controversial votes, they should not have run in the first place.

Brian, which would you consider to be more rude: wearing a t-shirt with the defunct USSR communist logo on it, or voting against a resolution honoring a band that was written up in response to a statewide contest? And which action do you think will cause Oklahoma more embarassment in the national media – the shirt or the vote?

Rep. Dorman claims some of the Republicans voting against the resolution are the same people that had pictures taken next to Ivins and his t-shirt when the band came in March. Some even requested signed copies of the pictures, which Dorman says are being delivered to his office.

I hope he names names and posts the pictures. Hypocrites.

(Click on my name to read Dorman’s blog about the issue.)

Oh my. That’s right. I was with Scott Booker when Dorman shared the photos with him. A big box of them. I’d gladly post some of those.

Wow, Steve, that’s a difficult question to answer. I am pretty offended by anything communist/oppressive, which certainly describes the USSR. But not voting or voting against a resultion Oklahomans decided is pretty rude. I would have voted for the resolution, though begrudgingly because of the shirt. It is one thing to cuss, it is another to wear the symbol of the country that we were on the verge of nuclear war with. Though it’s a difficult question (I won’t hide from answering it like some legislators), I think I am going to have to say wearing the communist t-shirt is more rude. But it is not so rude that I would have voted against the resolution. That is my personal opinion. But like I said, I like the “compromise” of Henry issuing the executive order.

I think the vote will cause more embarrassment in the national media. Not because it should, but because the media is overtly liberal and will see it as an opportunity to embarrass a conservative state.

Ryan, that is certainly hypocritical if that is the case. I cannot respect those votes unless they give a very good reason for their change of heart.

Brian, I respect your answer. Blogger Michael Bates has an interesting take – what would our response have been if Ivins had worn a swastika?
Now… what does the Communist symbol represent? If it only represents a country we were on the verge of nuclear war with, well, we didn’t end up at war and the opposing country failed. Likewise, a similar situation existed with China, and yet we’re not too proud to have borrowed A LOT of money from them.
But…
There are others who would say the old USSR symbol represents the slaughter of millions under Stalin and anti-semitism.
All of these are good issues to debate back and forth. But I’m at a loss to see where the action yesterday represents anything more than political theater and grandstanding.

Here’s a fun fact: Guy Liebmann voiced no concern over the city establishing sister-city relationships with cities in Communist China while he was a councilman.
Yes Guy. I know you…

Steve, you make some excellent points. The only one I can disagree with is the “polical theater and grandstanding.” I know a couple of the representatives who voted no (Holland and Armes), and I am sure they were truly put off by Ivans t-shirt.

Hopefully I don’t have to eat those words after Ryan produces those pictures! Ha!

Yesterdays vote was totally theatrical Steve. I guess there weren’t any other straw dogs to kick around at the capital.

This was just a political stunt by the far right in the house. They have finally got the power to really do what they want and I think this was just them flexing their political muscle. They take advantage of the fact that the moderates in the House will bend to their whims on most issues. This time though they miscalculated their power, but this doesn’t change the fact that they were still able to block it. I fear what will happen when Gov Henry is gone. He is the only thing that stands in the way of this state becoming totally conservative. I don’t think I will be able stay here if the far right here gets anymore power.

Once they finish making this state a social wasteland maybe they will try to fix the states real problems. I hate the fact that there is nothing I can do or say that will fix this problem. My voice has become virtually silent. Sorry for the rant, I just have a lot of pent up frustration towards the Oklahoma legislature and the general conservative trend in this state. There has to be balance.

We as a state and nation must realize that things are changing, and there is really nothing anyone can do to stop it. Especially once today’s youth grows older. I am so glad to be part of such an open-minded generation. Hopefully we can change these stupid things around.

If I want to wear a communist shirt, than so what? So what! They probably would have freaked out if he had a legalize gay tee on. The people in control of this state need to move on and let the more progressive move in. Rebublican or Democrats. Progressives is what we need. This is exactly the type of stuff that makes Oklahoma look so backwards and narrow-minded to the rest of the nation.

“Ohh! He cursed.” “His lips should be on fire!”

That sounds just like a bible-thumping preacher.

Good grief! Without researching it, can anyone name the “official rock song” of any other state? Talk about embarrassing… Do other states even HAVE official rock songs?

Ohio is the only other state to have an official rock song – “Hang On Sloopy”.

It’s all to help publicize ‘Another Hot Oklahoma Night’, the Oklahoma History Center’s Oklahoma rock and roll exhibit that opens next Saturday. Dennis, you should attend and learn a few things about our state’s rich rock and roll history.

The phrase “tempest in a teacup” comes to mind with this story. As far as political theater and grandstanding, isn’t this entire situation political theater? Naming an offical state rock song really means nothing. It is completely symbolic in all respects. If some members in the House wanted to symbolically vote “no” for whatever idiosyncratic reasons they may have, then let them vote no. The governor will now make the song the official rock song in Oklahoma nevertheless.

As far as negative national press, I did a few internet searches and could not find anything…anywhere (besides the Oklahoman info.) about the fact the Oklahoma State House decided to vote “no” on making a Flaming Lips song the state rock song of Oklahoma. Is this something that the next corporation looking to locate to Oklahoma will use in their decision? I think not.

If we want to use this situation to bring up other issues people have with Oklahoma laws, politics, politicians, etc. then by all means do so, but let’s keep this particular issue in proportion. The House did not just vote to put a robe around the statue of David. I would have voted for making it the state rock song and chalked up the shirt to ignorance, but it IS offensive to wear the hammer and sickle to our legislature. The USSR was about exterminating our way of life in every respect, just as the Naziis. As pointed out above, they slaughtered millions, instituted pogroms to drive out and kill Jews, eliminated democracy and capitalism and proclaimed they “would bury” us. The USSR would have killed or sent off to gulags everyone in our state House so I have no problem at all with those who took issue with the Soviet symbol.

I think the issue here is that the house republicans took a fairly innocuous declaration designed to do nothing other than promote the state history center and generate good PR for the state and tried to turn it into a front in the culture war. It’s silly. This is precisely the sort of shrill overreaction that the left used to specialize in during the glory days of political correctness. I don’t honestly think that Michael Ivins is a supporter of soviet style communism; the lips are nothing if not skilled and unapologetic capitalists (they seem to pump new merchandise into the market on a monthly basis). I think if anything Ivins wore that shirt to the capitol precisely to bait the more hysterical conservatives in the legislature. I would say that the legislature should get back to doing the people’s work, but given the nonsense that has come out of the capitol during this session, I would be happy to see them waste more time on this.

I once covered the House. A lot of these guys in both parties see this kind of thing as a game. They take pleasure in these little stunts.

I’m too far removed to know many of them. But I still know a few.

This is a king in the castle syndrome. Imagine for a second: When you’re elected to office, everyone tells you how great you are. Lobbyists kiss your tail. State agency heads kiss your tail. You get all kinds of special perks, free lunches, free dinners and even tickets to events from people seeking to influence you and merely get something out of the deal. They wouldn’t pee on you if you were on fire if you weren’t elected to office. You begin to think the average guy actually gives a flip about you. You begin to think you’re…important.

But outside of that dome, most of the state sees these stunts as the circus of clowns. It doesn’t matter the party. They trade their little press releases, they play their inside baseball, and meanwhile the people suffer.

If the people had any idea just how much time the Legislature wastes with this kind of thing, they’d go berserk. I mean, these people can waste time on an epic scale with stupid stuff that no one outside the chamber cares about. Seems like I recall it costs about $120,000 a week when the Legislature is in session. Can’t remember if that’s just the House or the entire Legislature. Anyways — I guess accuracy isn’t really important because it’s just money. Right lawmakers?

And I don’t want to hear “b-b-b-b-but the Democrats” or “b-b-b-b-but the Republicans.” They’re all equally responsible for this crap.

Ryan, tell us what you know or might remember about Mike Reynolds, who led the effort to not make the Lip’s song the state rock’n'roll anthem.

I know Mike Reynolds, and he’s not a “king in the castle” kind of guy. In fact, he paid a political price for standing up to leaders in his own party and the pay-to-play culture that prevailed during Lance Cargill’s speakership.

The twenty or so no-voters didn’t bring this issue forward or reserve time on the calendar to debate it. It was brought to them for a vote, and they chose to vote against it. As I look down the list of no-voters, I know several of them, and I know that they have bigger issues on their radar than the state rock song. But when the vote came before them, they voted in accordance with their conscience. They aren’t the ones making a huge issue out of this.

Michael, you clearly have more respect for our lawmakers than I do. I’m a non-partisan kind of guy; I’ve seen far too much fraud, lies and influence peddling among these folks to see them as examples for my sons to look up to.
Notice my list is bi-partisan.

At the end of the day, this is still going to garner national ridicule. My question – is it really worth it?

I don’t have respect for every legislator, but Mike Reynolds is a stand-up guy, as are many of the other people on the list of those who voted no.

As to the ridicule issue: I don’t want legislators wringing their hands over what people in San Fran and New York will think of us. We’re different, and I suspect most Oklahomans are just fine with that.

So these are stand-up folks. OK, you can say that. The photos at http://www.thelostogle.com/2009/04/27/yoshimi-battles-the-big-hypocrites/ tell their own story.

Steve, if you have really seen fraud, lies and influence peddling there is an obligation to report what you have seen–especially as a reporter. How can we possibly vote out those people without knowing what is going on? At the very least, fraud should be reported to the attorney general’s office for investigation (you can do so anonomously if you choose). Most people will not take a single hypocritical vote on a symbolic gesture as a reason to vote out their representative.

I do not know any House members personally, but the few Senators I know are great people and I would be proud to hold them up to my kids as life examples. They are true public servants. I agree with Michael that the thought that New York or San Francisco may have problems with Oklahoma will not keep me up at night. The corporate decision makers in the world who can actually make a difference in OKC’s economy could care less about this issue and this will quickly be forgotten as the School of Rock opens and everyone sees the non-symbolic effect of the Flaming Lips here in OKC, rather than a dusty old symbolic shirt.

I want to reiterate that I think the House members should have voted in favor of this honor as the benefits the Flaming Lips have brought to OKC and the state far outweigh the wearing of one shirt or the use of occasional profanity (I think that may be a prerequisite to be in any respectible band). However, has anyone asked why he wore a Soviet shirt to our legislature on that particular day? I find it hard to believe that of the dozens of shirts he owned, he just happened to randomly grab that one. Did he mean it as an off color joke to insult the legislature and the conservatives in it or not?

Brent, I did that job for several years. My work included coverage of Jack Cornett, Frosty Peak, Jerry Foshee, Brent Rinehart, all but one or two of the county offices, ODOT, state purchasing …
I’m now covering downtown development – a beat I really enjoy and one that allows me to go home at night to be with my family. But have no doubt – this sort of thing does effect downtown development, especially in terms of promoting the school of rock in Bricktown. And that’s why it’s of interest to my readers.
My comments on fraud and waste are in response to those who would say the Legislature is a place populated by honorable people. Nope, I’m not sold on that. Go back and read Ryan McNeill’s comments above.
As for the shirt, the folks I’ve talked to say it’s a meaningless retro fashion and nothing more. Is this the end of the world for us? No. But if all these various rankings via Forbes etc. have an impact, then I wonder if this kind of thing getting similar coverage ends up with the same kind of hit in a bad way.
Sorry folks if I’m going out on a limb here. But if Reynolds found this so objectionable, why didn’t he speak out when the offence occurred? Why didn’t any of them do so? And why did some of the “offended” lawmakers pose for photos with the band, with Ivins wearing that shirt?
It’s grandstanding folks, it’s a show akin to 20 clowns coming out of a small car.