I think the last sentence is a little interesting. How did downtown and bricktown take the back seat to c2s. the mayor’s state of the city was all about c2s. it does make me wonder why all this is going on. are the mayor’s friends going to benefit… are the former mayor and his friends going to benefit… why not finish what has already been started…

C2S is an extension of downtown. I think there are limits to what can be achieved through the existing downtown and Bricktown alone. C2S is a quality of life long-term issue, which I think, will enhance the progress being made in both downtown and Bricktown.

Bricktown and Downtown are on their way. C2S isn’t connected to Downtown?

This is just about extending Downtown to the river and creating a world-class 21st century environment that we have just this unique opportunity to create.

And people living in a 40-mile radius of Downtown OKC are the ones who benefit. Even more so the ones in a 2 or 3 mile radius.

…who, exactly, stands to benefit from the city’s Core to Shore investments? The very same people who’ll loose big if it fails. What’s wrong with some investors benefiting from the plan? If it succeeds, the whole metro benefits… If it fails the investors loose, and the metro just looks like it bit off more that it could chew.

Factor in all the projects pulled-through in the wake of Devon Tower (combined, God willing, with the resurrection of the economy), and OKC will have one heck of a metro to be proud of!

(Speaking of the “river,” I think we should be working on how to make it look more like a real river, instead of an industrial trench full of bad coffee.)

I think the water quality is generally ok. Nice blue hue on a sunny day. That would be difficult at best to fix. Now the banks are a different story altogether…and for another post.

Don’t confuse water quality with appearance. The water in the Oklahoma River is full of stormwater runoff, effluent from agriculture and the poop of a thousand stray dogs. It is virtually toxic, and you don’t want to swim in it, or eat any fish that come from it. For it to be a water feature in a marina, like in the C2S renderings, it will have to be cleaned significantly.

I don’t like getting off-topic, but LordGerald, that’s a slightly over-done statement on the quality of water in the River. It’s been tested enough to allow a triathlon soon, which means swimmers. That’s a big change… it may not be a swimmer’s paradise.

The Airpark development will certainly benefit if Core to Shore is built, because currently the Airpark seems too distant from downtown. Create something just opposite the Airpark, however, and things will really feel connected. I completely agree with Dennis as well – without a big success by someone, we’d have nothing anyway.

How is the quality of the Oklahoma River any different from the quality of any other river that runs downtown through a large metro area? Each one of those rivers is filled with the same stuff as ours and most are just fine, like ours.

I guess its the trendy thing to do to bag on your own stuff. I find it kind of silly. The OK river is fine – and a lot better than it used to be. I wish we could make the newly planted trees grow faster, and I wish we would move the USS Oklahoma Anchor down there as well.

Now we’re really off-topic.

I can think of several urban rivers that don’t look like stark industrial canals… The Oklahoma River has tremendous potential, and I’m sure someday it will become the beautiful feature that it should. But right now it’s an embarrassing eyesore.

Who wants more tax and spend only to make the mayor and former mayor even richer when c2s gets voted in. they been buying property under relatives names and dummy companies. what they should do is focas on roads,bridges,land fills that are only getting bigger by the day. ans saving some of are history when urban craze was going on in the late 70′s and early 80′s we last land marks that can never be replaced and we are headed down that same path again.

What landmarks Jim? Last time I checked the junk yards and the rotting streets south of downtown are only historic in relation to their quality and lifespan that ended 30 years ago.

And calling the Oklahoma River an embarassing eyesore is ridiculous. Did you see that ugly ditch before it was damned? It was disgusting. It wasn’t even a river. It was a long stretch of sand with 3 inches of water flowing through the middle. That was an EMBARASSMENT. We have improved the river so much on the respect that it actually looks like a scenic and communtity space that has influenced our culture and quality of life greatly.

It is still so young. It hasn’t even been dammed for a decade now, give it time. Good lord. I’m sure that when substantially complete. Its going to be beautiful. I just hope they don’t loligag on this potential. Its already proven to be great for our city, I can’t wait to see what else it can do.

Engineers concerned about hydrology, not esthetics, designed the Oklahoma River. I bet the rim-to-rim dimension doesn’t vary by more than a few inches! The riprap is great for erosion control, but looks like a dam embankment, not an inviting “shore.”

The taxi station and boathouses are excellent steps in the right direction. Granted,”embarrassing eyesore” is an exaggeration, but it’s a LONG way from being the dynamic outdoor amenity that it should be someday…

I am sick to death of mayor cornet and past mayor(s) humphreys and norich putting their personal agendas ahead of the general public. The first item of business for the next MAPS is public transportation and I think only public transportation.

I think some sort of development is very critical to the area south of existing I-40. It would give a better impression of what OKC is about than how it is currently.

Right now, what is down there is fine because people drive on the rickety old highway and are more concerned with falling through than looking at what is around them. When the new I-40 is opened, people will be able to see to downtown and it wouldn’t be a great impression if all we had surrounding it were auto body shops and salvage yards. I think there are other places the city could focus on, but this is the area that is in dire need of redevelopment and a Central Park and Convention Center would be a great addition to an already growing city.

Mike, since you are so against this, what sort of public transportation should we focus on?

Core to Short is important to Oklahoma City’s future. When the I-40 relocation is completed in a few years, you will have to drive through about 5 blocks of blighted area to get to the current nice downtown area. This area needs to be rejuvenated, and a large park and a badly needed convention center will certainly help.

In addition, the whole area south of the current I-40 could become a great urban neighborhood (part of downtown) incorporating great landmarks like Union Station, the Oklahoma River and boathouses, an iconic pedestrian bridge over the new I-40, and a great park stretching to the river. This is something that would enrich the lives of all in the metro by providing great public venues. Just like the original MAPS, this should be the foundation for massive private development to revitalize this part of downtown that has so much potential.

Brian, you and I are on the same page.

I can’t believe some of the commenters here. Given the great success of the various MAPS programs, the constant OKC pumping that Mayor Mick does around the country, and the incredible turnaround that this city has made in the last 15 years, I can’t believe the negative reaction.

The Oklahoma River is a massive improvement over what it was before. I look at it every day as I drive over it to work. It finally looks like a real river. Is there a hint of artificiality to it? OF COURSE there is. But to think it’s an eyesore is to be someone who simply cannot be pleased.

Core to Shore is desperately needed. That area has so much potential, and it is currently being wasted on salvage yards and gang hang-outs. Are there some people who stand to make a lot of money from this? OF COURSE there are. But good for them. Good for them for investing their own money into this city, for embarking upon massive building projects at a time when this country is in the largest recession since the Great Depression. At a time when people nationwide can’t get a loan to put in a new mailbox, in OKC we have people who are getting ready to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in new construction and new developments. I’d sure hope people like that could see some reward for their trouble. They are the ones who are taking the risks, after all.

Gary, Brian, etc. your comments seem to be right on. Are there still problems in the current downtown area, sure there are. However, if our standard is going to be that we require perfection in an area before we start making plans for the future, then we will never progress as a city. It may come as a shock to many, but we will never reach perfection. Office vacancy rates will never be 0, there will always be landlords with “issues”, buildings will require repairs, etc. etc. etc.

As a city, we seem to be fairing well in the national recession…for now. If we can still make improvements to the city, we will be three steps ahead of the rest of the country when the recession is over. Proceeding with Core to Shore planning is the exact right thing to be doing now, especially when Devon is about to begin building one of the the most iconic buildings in the city’s history. Of course, land owners, developers and others who own or are buying real estate in the C2S area stand to make money, but honestly, I have no problem with such business. I believe part of the intent of C2S is to increase business in OKC so I would sincerely hope that people make money following C2S…otherwise, what is the point?

When other cities around the nation are scaling back their plans, OKC is looking ahead with plans that can be quite the equal of MAPS I, and can even surpass those successes. I understand the arguments from people who think the city should not be involved in private business decisions, but the city should be very much involved in setting the stage, and that is exactly what C2S does. It sets the outline for downtown’s future with parks, convention center, etc. all of which are the bones for which private businesses will add the meat (that is the hope at least). If the Mayor and other city leaders are unable to focus on C2S and other city needs at the same time, they should not be in the positions they are, but I for one think they are more than capable of thinking of more than one issue at a time.

Brian #2,

I agree with you that the river is an improvement over what it used to be. Does that mean it’s done? Does that mean we stop improving it? I sure hope not.

Yes it’s an improvement over the sandy trickle it used to be… but anyone who sees it as anything other than an industrial canal is WAY too easily pleased.

Let’s hope our leaders are not similarly satisfied.

No one has really answered the questions what about the rest of the city other than three mile radius. Land fills, run down apartments out on Britton road, streets, drainage, better police force, fire dept. public transportation. These are things that core to shore will never do. Other than retired citizens working ford center or more waitress low paying jobs. We are better than just a service city we are not “Vegas” lets do things that actually creates jobs that can produce products to be sold all over the world. If you really think any of the Maps Projects are the reason Ok City is doing better wow you guys aren’t very smart. Cause if you really look it’s the Energy Industry that has kept the city thriving not Mayor and ill Ideals.” If you don’t think so” take the Manufacturing out and Energy sector out and let’s see them pay bills then. Well all be working at bars waiting tables picking up trash. So get real and quit letting teens decide the course of this city who all the live for is partying and attending basketball games.