Yes! We need a new convention center, and it should be part of MAPS 3. It should attach to and supplement, not replace the existing facilities… This will get us closer to the critical mass needed to bump us up a rung on the venue ladder.

Do it sooner rather than later. This would boost our image as well as our economy…

It’s completely vital to economic growth in this city.

How to fund it and where to build it should be the only contested points. At $400 million, it would eat up a huge chunk of MAPS 3 funds and be by far the most expensive MAPS project to date, taking about 4 years to fund.

City leaders clearly have been eying Core to Shore for the Convention Center’s location, but the facility will be so large that it will take up several acres of valuable space downtown. Finding a way to minimize the opportunity cost of using precious downtown land while maximizing the viability of the location will be the greatest challenge for people who plan the center.

It will be very tempting to delay big projects such as this in the current economic climate, but I hope people conclude this is precisely the time we need to be undertaking these types of initiatives and big plans for our future. Let’s go for it!

OK. So the new Convention Center will probably be built just south of the Ford Center. This will affect the Colcord, Sheraton, Renaissance, Skirvin, and Courtyard hotels, especially if a 600-1000 room hotel is built adjacent to the new venue.

The next challenge; connecting the current hotels with the new convention center. Maybe this will be addressed by MAPS3 in some way.

The most practical answer would be reliable and frequent trolley service between the hotels and the new center.

But if I were to dream, I envision an ‘elevated shuttle’, circling from the Skirvin to the Sheraton, to the Colcord, then to Ford Center, New Convention Center, new hotel, Chesapeake Boathouse, Bricktown (lower and upper), and back to Skirvin. An example would be Miami’s Metro Trains.

Sure, that is erally expensive. So I will fall back to the trolleys.

It’s too late now, but would this not have been a better investment for the overall good of the city than the ongoing money we’re putting into the “Thunder-Drome”? I’m also concerned about what’s becoming a very crowded area. Existing facilities suggest the possibility of more hotels. Where?

i think it should go where they have it planned on C2S… it will use a lot of land but that land is not valuable yet, and it would be really amazing if they could build apartments on the west side faceing the park the the C2S plans show, that would be a great use out of the land.

i think we should follow Houston’s model, their convention center is awesome, but not downtown, we could make ours amazing!!!!

i like the elevated shuttle idea!!!

I work at the C.C.Center. we need to put the money into the roads and highways. Its hurting our transportation. the building is fine and very busy all the time. i am not for raising more taxes.

James, it does not raise taxes. It keeps them at the current level. I am all for a new convention center. We need it. If the Cox Center is busy all the time, this will just allow for larger conventions to choose Oklahoma City. Make it apart of MAPS3.

The Mayor has already commented on the Convention Center and the Central Park. Per this study, the Convention Center is going to cost at minimum $250 mil and upwards of $400 mil. I would think the park would cost in the area of $10-$20 million (just my guess due to adding underground parking.) My question is, what are we going to spend on mass transit? I would assume MAPS III would net about $600 million. What kind of mass transit could be get for $180 million? The Phoenix starter line that is 20 miles long is going to cost 1.4 Billion… (With a B.) Upgrades to the trolleys? Better and more buses? More stops?

You can’t have an expanded convention center without also developing an efficient downtown transit system. Also, location is key and city planners will have to decide whether a massive convention center adjacent to the new central park is a good thing or a bad thing.

Steve,

Do you know when they are planning to release the CSL Tier II report to the public? It would be nice to have the same information on which all of those quoted are basing their opinions.

Currently I only know one thing – $400 million is a lot of money.

With our streets and highways in such terrible shape, I really don’t think a new convention center is the most important thing right now. There is more to Oklahoma City than the Bricktown area!

Karen, over half a billion dollars was just designated to go to roads in Oklahoma City in a bond issue. Money invested in a new downtown convention center will help our economy so that future revenues will increase enough to better maintain roads across the city. There is more to OKC than downtown and Bricktown- but those two areas along with a handful of nearby neighborhoods are the economic and cultural center of Oklahoma City.

A statement like “there is more to OKC than downtown” is really kind of dangerous- it implies a hostility to improvements downtown, and improvements downtown generate the momentum and frame the future for the entire metropolitan area.

Karen:
The National Choral Directors(8000 ppl) were in town last week. In another week, Pre-paid Legal (14,000 ppl) come to town. Our peer cities are all working on upgrading their facilities. If we do nothing, we risk losing the momentum we have as a City right now. Being short sited was how downtown died a slow death back in the 70′s and 80′s. We have discoverd a revenue source that isn’t dependent upon oil or agriculture, and the future even looks brighter.
I wonder how many of the people that are against building a new Conventin Center, also voted AGAINST the first MAPS.

I have a very informed perspective on this issue since I know a lot about design and build as an architecture student as well as my personal insight in economic development. I can tell you that $400 million is incredibly steep for a new convention center.

I know Pittsburgh just built a stunning center with much more space than we really need (1.5 million SF total) for $350 million, which is why $400 million to build a center in OKC especially now that construction prices are falling is insane.

The Chamber has been planning Maps 3 for a long time as the final step to becoming a Tier 2 city. It won’t be the last capital improvement project, but it will be the last aimed at getting OKC onto Tier 2–after that will be bigger innovations and bigger needs. But right now we just want to be able to do everything it will take in one final wide swoop in order to get OKC up on a level with cities such as Kansas City, Denver, and Charlotte. That includes the new park, the convention center, more modern mass transit, and probably a few smaller items thrown in, but those 3 for certain. $400 million for the convention center is much too high if we’re going to comprehensively improve OKC. $250 million is more like it..I would just suggest keeping it under $300 million. We need a center with over a million square feet total, but we don’t need 1.5 or 2 million square feet.

Nick, factor inflation, land purchase, and engineering contracts into the cost. Does Pittsburgh’s amount include those?

Without the report, we’re purely at speculation here. We need the report!

Do we know if the cost shown here includes a convention hotel? A building with 600 to 1000 rooms would play a big part of the cost…

I looked at the report online, and it was hinting at some sort of incentive to lure a new convention-class hotel. One was to offer the land for free (didn’t we do that for Dell?)

OK, where to build the hotel? South of the convention center? West of the Ford Center? And, how will this hotel be connected to the Central Business District, Bricktown, Arts District, etc…?

John, per the Core to Shore video, I believe the designated area for the hotel is directly north of the convention center, along the boulevard. As far as the connection to the CBD, I think when the Boulevard is built, it will bring it all together.

I think you’re right, Gary.

And good call, Paul. I have no idea if that includes the hotel which would be private development. But I can say giving the land out for free is a very good deal for both us and prospective developers since we can acquire the land cheaply through eminent domain.

Pittsburgh’s stunning new convention center just opened like 2 years ago. Construction prices have actually fallen since then, and our costs in OK should be lower than their costs in PA.

I don’t know Nick. OKC needs to build something ahead of the curve. We built the Ford Center on the cheap and now we’re paying for it, especially since Dalls, Tulsa, and Kansas City built ornate and very expensive arenas that honestly outclass ours in every way. The new convention center needs to be one of the nicest around, like the Brick was in Minor league baseball.

The only problem with a new C.C. is location. The Renaissance, Sheraton, and especially the SKirvin have lots to lose if the C.C. is outside of walking distance. New hotels will gobble up their rooms and we’ll have to stare at the possibility of having a closed and empty hotel building in the middle of downtown again. THe city has invested LOTS of money in the Skirvin and needs to see that recouped. This is nuts sounding, but I’m not sure if whats needed is not just to tear down the COX and build it right there again and do everything possible to give the new CC more space. Close Reno and allow the building footprint to expand south, or close Robinson and allow it to expand west into the Myriad Gardens. Utilize all the space that is now underground parking. Build a C.C. hotel where the Ford dealership is right now. I’m just concerned if you move it too far away, you kill those great hotels that have kept us in the game this long.

I understand your sentiment Jeffrey, but you have to consider that the Ford Center was built as a bare bones arena to attract an NHL or NBA team. When I first stepped foot into it, I knew it was going to have to be upgraded if it were to be a permanent fixture for a team. That is why I was not suprised when we were asked to pay for the renovations. The Ford Center cost $89 mil to build and add to that $100 mil in renovations, we would have $189 million in it. The BOK Center cost $178 million, the American Airlines Center in Dallas cost $195 million and the Sprint Center in KC cost $276 million. So we are going to be around the same amount as Dallas and Tulsa, but better because it is going to be updated later.

My wife works at Leadership Square and whenever we go to a Thunder game, we always park in the Main Street parking garage and walk to the Ford Center. That is about three to four blocks just for a game which isn’t too bad. Looking at the proposed area of south of the Ford Center, it will be about four blocks from the Sheraton, the Renaissance, the Residence Inn in Bricktown and the Colcord and five blocks from the Skirvin and the Hampton Inn and Suites in Bricktown. I don’t think that is too bad as long as we make it walkable for the guests.

Also, the mayor and most of the activists are very adamant (sp?) about keeping the Cox Convention Center due to things like the Big 12 championship.

I can definately understand where you’re coming from Gary, but what I think makes OKC an intriguing convention destination is the fact that you have the C.C. as literally, the center of what could be a huge convention complex. Its surrounded by hotels and if you can find a place to plant a real C.C. hotel, you could have almost 2,000 rooms within 2 blocks of the C.C. Very few cities can offer such a pedestrian-friendly attraction. Then, only 2 blocks from the Convention center is an entertainment district with enough table capacity to feed that many conventioneers. You could break at 4:30 – 5:00 for dinner and have everyone fed and back pretty easily by 7:00. That is unheard of in the convention business. Want to have a peaceful break, just one block the other way is the Myriad gardens, which will continue to be upgraded. If the train service is expanded then you have a travel outlet right in the middle there as well. OKC just has such perfect synergy with where things are at the moment. Move the convention center further south, you throw that all out of whack I’m afraid. The big 12 championship is nice but we’re talking about 1 week every couple of years, if that depending on what the B=12 decides. This is something that could pay off big time for many weeks of the year. Many of you have been to more conventions then me – I’ve been to D.C., Atlanta, Sacramento, Dallas, Houston, Grapevine, Ft. Worth, Birmingham, K.C., Memphis – none of them can offer what we do- the location of things right now is perfect, the C.C. we have on that location right now though, isn’t.

The one thing we really need is an express rail connection from downtown to the airport. You find a way to do that then OKC becomes a huge winner in the convention business.

Not that the Big 12 championship is not a big deal, but there are many other events that go on at the CCC as well. Since the Ford Center is going to be solely occupied by the Thunder and large concerts, there needs to be a secondary area that could house smaller events, such as large graduations, larger comedy shows and smaller concerts. Don’t forget about the Yardawgs and the Blazers as well. Also consider that if they did decide to build it south of the Ford Center, that would spur a lot of retail development including small shops, restaurants and delis in that area. If you want to have a peaceful break, you could walk right across the street to the new Central Park and relax.

I do agree that an express rail connection is needed from WRA to downtown. If we don’t have the funding for it, at least some shuttles that would be provided by the CCC, Ford Center of the new convention center to get people in that area.

I read Blair Humphreys’ references regarding the wisdom/need for a new convention center. Here is what I observed about conventioneers. They wanted to go to a cool city and be able to stay in great hotels. I never – never – heard anyone say they wanted to hold a convention in a certain city based on the convention center. Once there – convenient bathrooms, meeting rooms that aren’t too hot/cold and decent sound system/lighting/furniture fill the bill.

We renovated the Myriad with the original MAPS. People I talk to do not support funding a new convention center. How about some examples of conventions we couldn’t get because the Cox Center is inadequate. How about going back to our original plan – developing a city that could attract corporations and new businesses that can bring well paid jobs.

Bottom line – its hard to get excited about spending that much money to build a new convention center. And what’s the rush? Why not wait and see how downtown evolves. If there is urgency for meeting room space maybe we could add a wing to the Arena.

I vote to invest in projects that focus on our permanent population and not just turn downtown over to conventioneers and visitors. Remember the law of unintended consequences. And publish the report.