EXCITING. Perhaps a few extra DT hotels on the horizon?

With increased attractions and to be able to sustain our Big 12 tournaments we have to obtain more hotel space downtown. I know they are trying to link the meridian hotels via the boats, but to be honest, we want them to stay in Bricktown and they want to be within walking distance. Also, another nice hotel, little upper class would be a good compliment. Also it’s nice to see OKC getting more conferences, a chance to show most executives that this isn’t the dirty cow-town most think it is.

My response: ….

I can’t help but be skeptical nowadays. There were so many deals that are stalling. There were hotels that were supposed to already be happening. What happened to the Embassy Suites for Bricktown? What happened to the hotel on Reno, right next to the tracks? What happened to the Ritz Carlton? Seems like Hammonds is less excited now about Bricktown. Seems like funding was too hard to get for the parking garage developers on Reno. Seems like the City and Chamber maliciously destroyed the Bricktown Village proposal for the sake of beating up Funk and Pruitt. And what happened to the projected build-out of the Triangle, which was supposed to be MUCH further along by now. Nearly finished in fact. It’s barely even started as of yet. There were supposed to be towers proposed earlier this year. Overholser Green is now no more special nor any different than Mercy Park, speaking of which, what happened to Marva Ellard wanting to press on and find a different site? And what happened with Banta’s Office Depot? That needs to see the light of day because changes need to be made.

Rumors! Big whoop dee doo.

Very good – don’t ever stop with the questioning Spartan. Now, here are some answers …
Embassy Suites in Bricktown. You’ve got to think like the still lively Mr. John Q. Hammons on this one. In his mind, he delivered the hotel by building it in Norman. Yeah, I know, it’s not in Bricktown. But billionaires have their own mind sets.
Ritz. Just a name thrown out by Bob Funk and Scott Pruitt as they tried to buy the parking lot east of the ballpark from the city. Never a real deal, never something I reported as a real deal. As far as any bad blood between the city and Funk, well, I think I reported all I can on this matter.
Triangle…. depends on your point of view and expectation. Construction is continuing – visit NE 2 just east Broadway and you’ll see foundation work on the Maywood Lofts.
Overholser Green – ah, now that’s an interesting question.
Marva looking for another site – patience, patience, patience….
Office Depot. It’s dead. I’m just waiting for Greg Banta to let me write the obit.
Rumors? Nope. Not rumors. These exectives are shopping. I’m not saying they’re ready buy.
-Steve

Hey Steve. You brought up some more frustrations. Not..only..was Triangle build out supposed to be happening about..now, but the few parcels that are being developed are seriously behind schedule. The sign in front of the foundation work on the Lofts at Maywood Park says Own YOURS Summer 2008.

If I were looking to buy a cool, downtown loft, and start living the life, I would be nearly frustrated enough to say to hell with it I’m moving to Austin or Minneapolis.

I don’t think OKC really benefits from the Embassy Suites in Norman. In fact it honestly hurts OKC. Not only is OKC out of a potentially major development, but the new Norman convention center/hotel complex competes with OKC. In all it probably is a strength for the overall metro, but the Cox Center isn’t a very big facility nor is it a very good one. Any little convention center is competition for it.

Obviously the Norman Embassy Suites does nothing for OKC or downtown OKC. It’s just John Q.’s way of looking at things. As for the Triangle – I’m not going to stand up and be the defender for all developers. But it’s easy to throw rocks without understanding the complications that can arise. Financing is never easy for downtown housing – especially in this economy. And the fun that can be had with surprises underground – oh boy! Every housing developer has run behind schedule. I wonder if it would be better to judge not by the time it takes to get a project done, but rather, what is the result?

If anything, I think the Triangle area is coming along well, albeit a tad slower than expected. Delays don’t surprise me and and I’m happy to see they haven’t sacrificed any of the quality yet. The Hill is atrocious and I’m worried that Overholser Green will suffer from the same Hollywood movie set look. I trust that Marva Ellard will be moving along with the next thing as soon as the Sieber is shored up.

I can’t help but be skeptical, either, but I think The Triangle group is one of the most credible right now.

Well Steve, you know patience is one virtue I don’t have.

The way I see it, the 2005 Housing Study said we should expect between 2,250 and 4,250 new units in between 2005 and 2010. And then went on to say we’ll see around 7,750 units between 2005 and 2015. It is now almost the end of this decade, we’re rapidly approaching 2010. We’re well over that 2,250 (just under 3,000 by my count) if you include speculation, but unfortunately, that’s all there is, and the speculated units won’t be a reality until 2015 if we’re lucky, but we were supposed to have seen 7,750 units by then.

Then you add to the fact that the Triangle was supposed to offer almost 1,000 units alone, plus tons of office and a bunch of this retail we desperately need in order to keep our downtown alive. That was supposed to be nearly finished already. What’s happened so far? 6 parcels are u/c or starting. That’s not even a dent. We don’t even have 100 units finished in the Triangle right now, or even standing up yet. I guess they’ve taken the website down in recognition that the timeline of the Triangle has been a massive letdown.

My way of seeing this is that long range plans are nothing to get excited over. They’re tedious. I especially don’t want to be ostracized for getting anxious over the planned ‘changes’ that were supposed to make OKC a decently trendy place to be for a nice change.

Spartan, here’s a deal for you – you’re the college guy, so you’re probably better at math than I am: I’ll list the new housing units since that study, and you find out the number of units for each complex and add it up and report back.

Units added since 2005:
Park Harvey
Legacy at Arts Quarter
Harvey Lofts
Sieber Hotel
Central Avenue Villas
Block 42
The Centennial
The Hill
Brownstones at Maywood Park
Lofts at Maywood Park
NE 1 and Central apartments (old Littlepage building and adjoining building)
The Montgomery

I’m doing this from memory, so if I’ve forgotten anything just make whatever alterations needed.

Alright no prob Steve. We’ve got..

Park Harvey: 178
Legacy at Arts Quarter: 303
Harvey Lofts: 13
Sieber Hotel: 38
Central Avenue Villas: 30 (and I understand McDermid’s frustrations with this one)
Block 42: 40
The Centennial: 30
The Hill: 157 (then it was reduced)
Brownstones at Maywood Park: 15 (hundreds were planned)
Lofts at Maywood Park: 55
The Montgomery: 50
Littlepage Bldg: 12
The Classen: 88
222 E Main: 4

And I’ll be generous and include everything that -should- break ground before 2010:

Overholser Green: 80
Cotton Exchange: 66
Carnegie Center: 15 (this still on?)
The Guardian Lofts: 5
Hadden Hall: 12
Candy Factory: like 2
The Flatiron: 19
Heritage Building: 10

So that’s 1008 new units that should actually exist, be livable, by 2010. 1242-3242 less than actually projected. Including all of the ones that will be livable or should be well underway by 2010, the total is now 1217.

Interesting. And you’re including projects I doubt will happen (no, I won’t name names). Candy Factory will be all offices. Heritage Building could go to another use as well. And I wouldn’t have thought about including the Classen as a downtown address.

So, Mr. Cynic, you’re being kinder than I would be. You are correct – we’re running behind projections…. so now, and I ask this of everybody …. why?????

Well, I can’t help but think that since the Cotton Exchange will be at the top of the Bricktown Urban Design committee’s next meeting that construction plans for the project are moving forward. In my opinion anywhere in between NW 23rd and the Oklahoma River is all in the same boat, and that is an area that will eventually, hopefully sooner than later, become a really cool area.

As for running behind in projections there could be multiple explanations but in the end they are excuses. The first is that during this period we’ve focused on getting higher-end units in downtown because they won’t come as easily once we inundate downtown with a good stock of more moderately priced options and the study might not have taken that into account.

I actually thought that the study was being conservative, due to the repressed demand for downtown living, and especially the fact that OKC is a fairly large rising city that desperately wants to edge out towns like Austin and KC–cities where classy downtown living is already a way of life. Another reason that I am certain has knocked projections down a lot is that national lenders are skeptic of the market for downtown housing in Oklahoma. Perhaps that we haven’t had a single flop, every high-end downtown unit sold, will help ease that a lot. I think some of the slowdown is also attributable to the fact that the processes in place to get a development approved are just a pain in the ass. I would prefer a laxer process as long as it has a way of vetting projects that don’t belong, like Houston’s process for example, which the city seriously needs to examine and adapt to fit our city better.

So am I right, if so, do I win a prize? =)

spartan, i understand your frustration at grand plans falling thru… that gets my goad too. however, as far as downtown housing goes, i have no problem with the pace it’s proceeding at… because it is a new path that is being blazed. i would rather it proceed cautiously then the market being oversaturated.

but that’s just me and my limited knowledge and experience in these matters… i do realize i’m not a sparticuss or slackmeister.

Ed, interesting perspective – better to succeed traveling at 45 mph rather than attempt 110 mph and crash and burn, right?