Comments on: What would Class 7A football look like?

By: Luis

Luis — Sat, 17 Nov 2012 04:05:44 +0000

I think there is some good and bad with this idea! For the schools that have no business being 6A this evens out some chances for them tocompete with some of these top “7A” teams. I graduated from PCO and as a athlete it is no fun playing weak teams. I enjoy a tough hard nose game that comes down to the wire. I think that the East side school can make up there own district while the west side schools can form their own.. that would allow, for the most part, less travel for the schools like Union to play a lawton every week. But I do feel like if Oklahoma football wants to get on the same playing feild like Texas high school football this needs to be done.

By: JT

JT — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 21:56:45 +0000

This whole converstaion is blaming the symptom instead of the disease. The only way to solve the problem of inequity in championships (if it is even a problem) is for the west side to get better. It’s really that simple. This whole idea originates from the west side’s inability to compete in football. Some say it’s because of size. Fine, then stop making your schools smaller. Some say it’s because of fundamentals instilled in youth football. Fine, then start increasing the importance placed on youth football in your district. There’s no doubt that the east side has placed a priority on football. When will the west???

By: Kyle

Kyle — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 21:24:21 +0000

Funny thing is the schools on the west side (Edmond, Moore, Norman, Putnam City) of state score higher academically then the schools on the east side (Union, Jenks, Owasso, Broken Arrow). So while those school dominate in sports, they will be answering to the kids on the west of the state (i.e.: their future bosses).

By: Kyle

Kyle — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 21:12:50 +0000

Jenks and Union have to come to the OKC area more often? NO!! God forbid.

By: joe oglesby

joe oglesby — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 19:57:55 +0000

In Missouri teams play a 9 week schedule and on the tenth week the playoffs start, with all teams qualifying for the playoffs. However, you can build districts, but playoffs you can build simple districts based on overall enrollment, high school enrollment, and graduation rate. Something like this, will allow the inner and rural communites to develop there own districts without travel across stste until state championships…

By: Tammi Templeton

Tammi Templeton — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 17:27:19 +0000

Force those large schools to build additional High Schools. Is this not what happened with the OKC area teams years ago who dominated year in and year out?

By: Scott Wright

Scott Wright — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:53:36 +0000

Andy, I like that idea, or I’d be fine cutting the current 6A to 16 teams, moving the other 16 down to 5A, and moving 16 from 5A down to 4A. At the same time, I’d bump 16 teams up through each of the smaller classes to get 4A up to 64 teams.

-Scott Wright

By: Clam Digger

Clam Digger — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:46:09 +0000

I’m trying to see the logic of those that say the size of the school doesn’t matter. As a coach, I’d love to pull from a pool of potential players that was 2-3 times the size of the schools I was playing against. And yes it matters that the big 4 get started early with the same fundamentals and game philosophies. There’s only 1 HS to go to, makes it a lot easier to teach the same principals when they’re coming from and going to the same place.

As for those out of state schools that they lost to this year that were small, how many HS’s do they have in their districts? Once you answer that, I think you’ll see a trend.

By: Andy

Andy — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:00:54 +0000

How about taking 1 through 24 and making them 6A, then take 25 through 32 and put them in 5A? Just a thought!!

By: Guru53

Guru53 — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:12:01 +0000

No it does not indicate balance but it also doesn’t indicate that any school outside of those four truly has a chance of competing. Santa Fe and Norman have less than 2,000 students what’s their excuse for being in the mix…? There is no difference between MWC/Lawton and Norman and Santa Fe why should those schools be lumped in 7A?

By: steve

steve — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:48:46 +0000

So one or two schools a year indicates a balance? The super 4 were in the semis last year. The fact that we have about 1 school with less than 2000 students a year even in the quarter finals says a lot.

By: Guru53

Guru53 — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:59:05 +0000

I don’t think this year tells the story at all. Lawton was in the semi-finals just two years ago…Midwest City was in the Semi-Finals 3 years ago and both of those programs have been consistently in the playoffs..Muskogee was competitive and was deep in the playoffs five years ago..

By: steve

steve — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:18:29 +0000

Enid played Jenks in the 2006 Finals.

By: steve

steve — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:17:15 +0000

This years playoff participants tells the story. 13 of 16 schools in the playoffs and all 8 of the first round winners would be n the new 7A

By: Guru53

Guru53 — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:08:27 +0000

Santa Fe played for it in the early 2000′s and lost to Jenks in the finals when Santa Fe had Reggie Smith.

By: Old Ball Coach

Old Ball Coach — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:02:22 +0000

since 2000*

By: Old Ball Coach

Old Ball Coach — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:00:39 +0000

Here is the deal, just like the election. No one will like what goes on. But my two cents from coaching the old days. Besides Jenks/Union/BA/Owasso there is no other school up there that is competitive. 7A would include them in playing all these good West side teams week in and week out. I know Union and Jenks are good. But its just like small schools up there, they have to play 2 or 3 hard games for the year, then blow out everyone else. So they go into the playoffs healthy as orange juice. If they had to play competitive teams week in week out like 6A-4 did this year it would be a different scenerio I think. Just my opinion. I’m curious to see what happens.

Correct me if im wrong but was it Mustang in 2005 that has only been the West Side team to play for it all in 2000?

By: RedStateCowboy

RedStateCowboy — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:57:18 +0000

The only logical way to create an even playing field is to split off the top two schools (attendance wise) to create a 7A…which is completely illogical in itself.

Numbers clearly don’t equal talent. BA hasn’t won a state championship in how long? Owasso hasn’t won since 1974. A 16 team class is WAY too small… heck, a 32 team class is pushing it.

By: Metro

Metro — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 16:41:08 +0000

Its all about diluting the talent of the schools in all areas of extra curricular activities; Jenks grew in size when the district expanded into Tulsa after the closing of Mason High School.
A town the size of Broken Arrow would be able to sustain a second high school; comparable cities would be Lawton that has shown they have.
The argument about building the program through pee wee and on up is valid if only for the fact that there is only 1 high school they feed into; Broken Arrow, Jenks, and Union have all shown the money to build facilities for new programs, so there is no denying that they are funded well enough to be able to build a second school; they are just unwilling to do so.

By: EdmondM

EdmondM — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 16:40:26 +0000

We all are aware of the sports machine that BA/Jenks/Union have in bringing their players up from an early age. Newsflash, we have very competitive Jr league sports outside of Green Country. Here’s the difference. Our kids play on teams full of kids that at some point will split up and attend 3 different Edmond School districts. Does the Edmond Sante Fe program have a big influence on my kids Jr. League sports? Nope. Does Jenks kids stay and play together throughout their school career, yep. Does the Union coaching staff have an influence on the development and the system being set on the young players that will spend their career in 1 school system and 1 unified football program, yes.

And to imply that Tulsa kids are the only kids in the state being brought up with exposure to culture and taking other extracurricular ventures seriously is a joke. You must not have gotten out much. Yeah we’re impressed that the Broken Arrow band kids spend 45 hours a week on the field to win a couple of trophies. Awesome, really. You’re the lucky ones.

By: Creed

Creed — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:15:00 +0000

Size DOES matter, however this proposal changes nothing. Matter of fact, Lawton is closer in enrollment to the states smallest school than they are to BA! Quick fix? Keep the east/west playoff brackets separated until the finals. You will then have a west rep in every title game. May never win, but you have a shot.

By: Ricky Dale

Ricky Dale — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 10:27:04 +0000

This proposal is the biggest pile of manure ever invented.I do like the idea of adding a class but not with 16 teams in it.

By: Kent

Kent — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 04:06:19 +0000

In 1968 Northwest Classen had 3100 students. Putnam City was even larger.

By: JT

JT — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 03:52:57 +0000

This is a very lame idea. Sounds like those that can’t compete taking their ball and going home. Besides, the west side has no one to blame but themselves. There is no reason why Moore needs three high schools. They (and other OKC metro schools) keep splitting themselves right out of championships. Why blame the east side school districts for being more effecient and not waisting money operating 3 high schools.

By: Becky E

Becky E — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 01:50:19 +0000

This helps the lower 16 enrollment schools, but not 14 of the 16 upper enrollment schools. The fact is that in football, unlike any other sport, large enrollment counts. Only football has huge teams–the more going out the more likely you are to fill the multiple slots. Soccer, baseball, softball, any other sport, you can do very well with less than 15 good players. Perhaps in order to give every team a chance, Jenks, Union, Broken Arrow, and Owasso should remain in 7A each year and the remaining teams should rotate. At least every few years the others might have a chance!

I think the best solution is to put size limits on classes and disregard how many teams that puts in a class. Let the huge Tulsa districts play each other 2 or 3 times a season and determine a winner amongst themselves.

By: Henry

Henry — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 00:10:05 +0000

Let the four Tulsa schools play a 7A tournament. Best of five semifinals and best of seven Tulsa Championship. Who needs a regular season anyway! The remainder of the state can play old school football.

Disclaimer: Obviously a joke. I think.

By: scott owens

scott owens — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 21:05:37 +0000

if size does not matter then why have classes?
what a joke! to say that picking from a pool that is 3 times larger is not an advantage is ridiculous.
Morrison has a winning culture…..should they be able to beat Yukon because they dont? get real

By: Jordan

Jordan — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 20:06:54 +0000

doesn’t 2A have like 64 times? 16 teams in one class and 64 in another? doesn’t seem very fair to me. And 12 would be playoffs?? you’d have teams with negative records going to the playoffs. I don’t agree with that.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 17:35:52 +0000

I’m a PC West grad, but I live in Jenks and my kids all go to Jenks, so I have ties on both ends of the 6A spectrum. Union Rep has it exactly right – it’s the culture and the commitment that makes a difference, not simply size. I can’t speak for any other school, but at Jenks, the kids know they are expected to do better, whether it’s football, band, choir or math. We have a high school facility that rivals some colleges, including a new state-of-the-art math and science building that includes a planetarium. We couldn’t have that if we spent the money on a second high school just to please people on the other side of the state.

The fact is that some schools decided to split, and some have decided to leave things as they are, each for their respective reasons which made sense to them.

As far as what a Class 7A would look like, it would look like the big 4 winning 90% of their games against the other 12, but everybody having to use a lot more gas in the process.

By: Brad

Brad — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 17:10:53 +0000

I know I’m be way late to this conversation but it’s a great topic. I’ve been thinking about it a lot recently. Here’s something you West-siders who complain about the competitive balance should know: In week two of this season, BA, Union and Jenks all played out of state powers from Arkansas and Texas and lost. What else do those teams from out of state have in common? They are all smaller in size than the schools they matched up with that week. It’s funny how I didn’t hear any of them complaining about that before the games were played. Additionally, Desoto, who beat Jenks and Trinity, who beat Union, are traditionally ranked near the top in the nation but they also are much smaller than many of the schools they match up against. For instance, Allen HS, who was ranked number 1 in Texas to begin the season, is nearly twice the size of both Desoto and Trinity. Allen has over 5,000 HS students! So my point is, school size is not always an excuse for not being able to compete.

My kids go to Bixby, which is one of the smallest schools in 6A. You won’t ever hear compalaints about school size from folks around here because the administration, parents and community are committed to being successful. They may take their lumps for a little while but it’s only a matter of time before they compete with the big boys. There is absolutely no way to make it competitively balanced for everyone. The only schools I realy feel sorry for are the Urban schools who don’t have the support or resources to have a chance to compete, i.e. Grant, PC West, etc. For everyone else, it’s just sour grapes. My only suggestion is to leave all the same except that the district sizes go from 8 to 6 teams. Then expand 5A and 6A.

By: Union Rep

Union Rep — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 16:43:56 +0000

I agree “C” – had in my original post that I accidentally deleted that size obviously helps. Lawton/Muskogee are two teams that produce a lot of athletes, but they have to play both ways which is a disadvantage. But I feel the other factors are more important. Jenks has been committed to winning since it was a Class A or 3A school – it has a culture that others like Union, BA, Owasso are catching up to – no different than a Clinton… Take former Jenks Coach Lancaster – Muskogee was losing until he went over there and implemented a change in their culture – they were very competitive for a few years. Lancaster did the same thing at BA – they’ve been huge forever, but were never a threat until he worked on their culture. I think one thing that would do more to level the playing field than anything is tightening up the transfer rules. I would rather see this done first as opposed to a watered down class.

By: c

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 16:19:07 +0000

Union Rep…I do agree there is a difference, no debate there. But size does help, can’t ignore that. I am not saying that if you combined Edmond, Moore, etc again, that they would be just like Jenks and Union. Some of those would have to have the commitment and coaching staffs to do it. I know being from Lawton if you combined schools they would be pretty tough with the athletes that have been at MAC and LAWTON, and IKE has some too, think its more coaching there (thats a different subject) The only way that one could truly see a difference would be to break up the big three or combine some schools back. THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!! So it is what it is. I was on the west side of the state, now in a different state, and am not an east side hater by no means. I enjoy seeing Jenks, Union, and BA play and wish them well especially in out of state games. I enjoy just seeing every year if there is a team to dethrone. I think that makes it intriguing.

By: Guru53

Guru53 — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 13:14:15 +0000

CLASS 7A DOES NOT SOLVE THE TWO COMPLAINTS ABOUT 6A….JENKS/UNION WILL STILL WIN AND PC WEST AND US GRANT WILL STILL LOSE…ITS A FACT AND NO ONE MADE THE WEST SIDE SCHOOLS SPLIT…THEY HAVE THEMSELVES TO BLAME…YUKON AND MUSTANG HAVE NOT…TOO BAD THEY DON’T HAVE THE ATHLETES TO COMPETE YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT.. DON’T WATER DOWN OKLAHOMA FOOTBALL PLEASE.

By: Robert Slankard

Robert Slankard — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 04:18:57 +0000

I’ve always been stuck in the middle of this east-west debate. I’m a life long Broken Arrowan, but I’ve always wanted at least two high schools in BA. It would give more kids opportunities to participate in sports. That said, however, I don’t remember anyone putting a gun to the heads of the OKC area school districts and forcing them to divide into numerous high schools. I respect your choices and wish BA would do the same, but it’s a free country the eastern school districts have exercised their rights. The last time I checked, Broken Arrow, for all of its size, still hasn’t won a state title in football and has exactly one title in basketball. I wish it was just size…then we’d quit losing to Jenks and Union every year!

By: Union Rep

Union Rep — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 03:55:53 +0000

I had a nice long summary and lost it – here’s the “short” version. Moore/BA were largest schools in 70s/80s but were not good. Union/Jenks are hyper focused on everything, not just sports. My daughter dances for a 3rd grade squad – the skill set for 3rd grade players was nuts, ie., no-huddle, passing, stripping the ball, etc. They are well coached from a young age, and although I think it’s nuts, the parents pay for kids to have additional training. I lived in Edmond 13 years before moving to Tulsa – It’s just not the same – you have to see it to get it. Talk about size all you want, that just shows you don’t get it.

By: John

John — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 02:50:22 +0000

Good ole Dean with the usual east side arrogance. Same opportunities? What a complete joke! Twice the enrollment and much more money makes a huge difference and even a monkey can figure that out. The facilities at these schools rival some small colleges. I go to games all over this state and nothing comes close to those facilities. That said, the 7A idea is not the answer. 6A will suffer.

By: Bryan

Bryan — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 23:31:50 +0000

Let’s just give all the schools a trophy!!!

By: Dean

Dean — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 23:20:15 +0000

Mike, your comment about the travel expense, I believe it will be a home and away situation, meaning a West side school will travel to the East one year and the East will travel to West the next. So the “more money to spend” comment does not make sense. All schools will have to increase their budget each year. That is something no school needs to do.

By: Mike

Mike — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 23:15:06 +0000

Ok, so I didn’t calculate the teams right in my class breakdown. There are 271 teams now in 6A-A. Still keep 7A-16, 6A-24, 5A-32, and 4A-32. 3A and 2A will have 56 teams; 8 districts of 7 teams and 32 make the playoffs. They have some 7 team districts already, this evens it out. Class A will have 55 with 7 districts of 7 and one with 6. 32 teams make the playoffs here. Smaller schools with greater shot at the playoffs.

By: Dean Atchison

Dean Atchison — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 23:13:21 +0000

It sounds like a little West side jealousy. Yes, Owasso, Broken Arrow, Jenks and Union are large schools, but there is more to it. They take education, band, debate, arts and yes, sports seriously. They rarely have a bond issue defeated, whether it is to build a college prep building or purchase buses for students. They begin the arts, band and sports at a very early age and build on that. Most schools don’t do that. There are other schools with more money to spend, but these schools seem to do it right. The West side schools have the same opportunity as the East side schools, so other than jealousy, I see no point in creating a 7-A class unless you are going to even out the lower classes. 2-A seems to have the most schools.

By: Mike

Mike — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 22:51:02 +0000

@JenksDad, so if you have to travel, you have to travel. Suck it up! You have much more money to spend than the numerous smaller schools who have to travel every year no mattter what. I would guarantee that their districts would cover much more area than yours still. I don’t buy that argument at all. You just went down to Texas this year and played and didn’t have a complaint.

By: Mike

Mike — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 22:44:50 +0000

If we were to keep the same 199 teams in the eleven man classes, this is how I would like to see it broken down. 7A-16 teams, 6A-24 teams, 5A-32, 4A-32, 3A-32, 2A-32, and A-31.

By: JenksDad

JenksDad — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 21:35:32 +0000

I would like to point out that the record of Jenks, Union, and BA playing large out of state schools over the last 12 years we are 14-6. So the statement that we “cant regularly compete against larger out of state schools” is not accurate. This year was not good (going 0-3), but over the last 12 years we have matched up very well. Before this year we were 14-3 over the previous 11 years.

The main issue I see with going to 7A would be the extra travel up and down the turnpipke for the 4 east side schools. this would require 3 to 4 trips from Tulsa to OKC for each east side school per year.

By: kkm

kkm — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 20:20:03 +0000

If the purpose is to ensure better parity then even this list doesn’t really fit the bill. There are some 7A teams here that aren’t competitive in the existing alignment. A rotating two-year realignment based on a combination of size and record would be better. It is no fun for anyone when some teams get pretty well stomped and others are only playing their starters for 2 quarters for up to 50% of their games.
That said, it is ridiculous that those teams in the East are so readily positioned to dominate year after year based on the Jr College size of their schools. Coaching and athletic programming in the West can do a lot, but it can’t regularly compete against a pool of twice as many players. And even though the East wins State every year, those teams still falter when it comes to playing bigger teams outside Oklahoma. I’d think that they surely want better competition during the year than they are currently getting so they can start winning those games too.

By: Andy

Andy — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 15:16:26 +0000

I think I would be in favor for it if there was more of an even number of teams on the west side of the state and east side for the new class. But unfortunately it’s the Big 4 and 12 OKC metro schools. So the Big 4 would basically be traveling the turnpike every week. 12/4 doesn’t seem like a very good ratio to be creating a new class.

By: Guru53

Guru53 — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 14:50:47 +0000

All this does is water down 6A and hurt 12 other schools by putting them in a higher classification with two districts… It does not change the facts that none of the other schools besides the four east schools are willing to do what it takes to compete anyway. It won’t matter you will have a weak Class 6A champion and a Class 7A champ of Jenks/Union/BA/Owasso…

By: c

Thu, 08 Nov 2012 14:39:35 +0000

I don’t like it. I have various opinions not that they are right, and maybe I don’t have the answer. Now I am originally from Lawton and living now out of state. And if I was biased I being from there I would be all over this because this would give Lawton a GREAT chance at some championships. It just seems like it waters down 6A. I think until this year, if you had that format before, Midwest City would had been dominating IMO. They did well until they met Jenks/Union 7A would make the games week in and week out tougher for each opponent, I guess that might make it better for them to fall, I dunno. I think this doesn’t change U.S. Grant and the likes from getting demolished either. I don’t have the answer though either.

By: tee

tee — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 08:34:10 +0000

I agree it seems like BA and union have more of an larger number of students athletes to have participate in football compared to the other schools in the district that are size comparable. Is that why they dominate? I agree with the previous comment. Besides that the system seems good.

By: Charles

Charles — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 04:29:04 +0000

If anything, it highlights the disparity between Broken Arrow, Union, and everyone else. If I had a vote and lived in a world where money wasn’t an issue, I’d make them add two high schools, and keep it all 6A.