Comments on: Final Rankings: Class 6A

By: Bombermagic

Bombermagic — Sun, 11 Mar 2012 19:42:41 +0000

Cd,

What you have just said is the single most insanely, idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your Rambling, incoherent, response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. You are awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

By: Katy Figur

Katy Figur — Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:36:50 +0000

6a gets out coached every year by the east side. Teams in 5a, 4a, 3a and 2a always beat teams from Tulsa. Douglass beat Wagner and Glenpool every time they play them. Guthrie and Carl Albert beat who ever they face. Heritage hall and Millwood do also. So what is 6a teams problem, bad coaching and weak districts? To get undefeated districts they play weak opponents.

By: GURU

GURU — Tue, 13 Dec 2011 15:37:09 +0000

I know in Edmond the high school programs cannot implement their philosophy(or schemes) in the middle schools because in five middles schools that feed three high schools. Out of 8th grade they have the right to choose any of the three high schools. Therefor in Edmond high school programs are recieving athletes that basically have no clue about what the culture or schemes of these schools are until their 9th grade year outside of what they get in summer camps and just coming to games. It’s a slippery slope. Not as easy as it seems. Sure like Union, Jenks, Broken Arrow, Owasso those kids are growing up in those school systems in other places like Edmond the choice of high school is often times not made until the end of the 8th grade year.

Well I don’t see these schools ever uniting again but I can see a classification realignment where there could be more teams in class 6a and class 5a and have a Division I and Division II much like Texas.

By: C.D.

C.D. — Mon, 12 Dec 2011 18:37:41 +0000

Guru, I think they can. Even before talk begins about splitting/unified, I believe there is LOT’S of room to develop youth programs – aka the “bobbleheads” – those kids from the 3rd grade through to middle school. Fun-focused and family-based programs that even out talent, teach basics, run common systems that grow into the HS philosophy, and tie them into the particular culture (coaches at those HS’s get together and oversee that process). You can do that at MWC/Del City, Edmond, Moore, Norman, Yukon, Mustang, Deer Creek, Piedmont, etc. Then the middle schools just take it a step further – still under the HS program oversight – to be the “finishing schools.” I was a part of that at Jenks with my kids, and now in Edmond with the grandkids I see that difference clearly. When you see a sea of maroon jerseys on elementary playgrounds every Friday in the fall in Jenks, or tens of floats in the homecoming parade with football players, dads/moms, and cheerleaders for all the teams from 2nd grade on up (it takes forever), you know its football. I don’t see that here. I have friends in the Union and Owasso districts, and it’s the same. Do that first and I believe in 5 to 10 years you’ll see parity without splitting the eastside
The downside to keeping one high school is any given Friday in Edmond, 33 kids are on the field somewhere, while on the eastside its only 11. That ensures there are lots of kids who could be on the field who aren’t on the eastside teams. That’s the price you pay, but they see it more as underclassmen for the most part marking their time (although lots of underclassmen on Union this year – bad sign for the rest of the state). What has usually been the case is most games have starters out by 4th quarter, so that next year’s starters already have significant experience when it’s their time. They also do not want to become instant rivals that will occur if they split – that’s horrible for a community and destroys any semblance of community unity and spirit, particularly at a time we need it the most. . Interestingly, it looks like that is the direction Deer Creek is going as they grow under their Superintendent who came originally from Union with their new 7/8 grades center, and 9th grade center. Looks a lot like Union. Again, it’s just a different philosophy. Edmond, MWC, Norman, Moore, Putnam City, Lawton – all could reunite like Bartlesville did years ago with College and Sooner high schools, and take advantage of such a system. I think one possibility worth considering if these schools reunited is if the OSSAA would approve to let JV’s of such programs compete at the 2 or 3A level as non-district opponents, and play 6A varsity football on Thursdays (allowing JV players as backups). That would be the equivalent of having two teams, albeit the JV would not have opportunity for play-offs.
The teams that really suffer are the 6A’s like Stillwater, Enid, Muskogee, and Bartlesville that cannot combine within their district, and have a long way to travel to be part of a youth program.
You could create a 7A under the current schools, but with the limited number of teams (really not that much of a difference once you get past BA and Union) you’d still have to play 6A for most of the schedule, and if you have 4 playoff games you’d still have Mustang, Edmond north and Memorial, and Moore (with the current figures, others not far behind) in the class. However, if these schools reunited, and then you truly would have a 7A with the 4 eastside, Moore, Lawton, Norman, MWC, Edmond, and perhaps eventually Mustang, Yukon, Deer Creek, Piedmont, et. al. as they continued to grow and didn’t split.
That’s a lot of rambling, and obviously one person’s opinion. That’s why I’d really like to see Ryan and staff look at this closely and interview coaches, admin, OSSAA, look at other states, maybe work on this cooperatively with the World sports staff, and finally get some meat to evaluate alternatives. If not, this debate will never end.

By: GURU

GURU — Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:20:14 +0000

Without a doubt the disadvatage the Westside has is the youth programs and the splits. BTW Blackmon, McCoy have no relevance in a 6A coversation. They have no impact on someone beating Union or Jenks. Point taken of course their is ablility on the Westside but youth programs and schools not being split is hard to overcome.

“Devote more time and effort.” Split schools cannot even be involved with all the middle schools that feed them becuase kids can go to more than one of the high schools. The Westside schools cannot structure the same way that Jenks, Union, BA, and Owasso can.

Thoughts CD

By: Ryan Aber

Ryan Aber — Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:29:43 +0000

Hard to argue with most of that which is why I’ve written it in some form or fashion dozens of times over the last 6 years. The youth programs up there are the building blocks that make their programs so good week-in and week-out. Jenks and Union have benefitted from them for years and Broken Arrow and Owasso are seeing them pay off now.

And I’ve never written that “this is the year.” I’ve written when I’ve thought there would be a chance of it but I’ve said for most of my time here that I would not pick against Union/Jenks to win a championship until someone knocks them both out.

You’re right that it’s time for a big package on the differences. We’ve done stories before but certainly there’s more to be written about it.

By: C.D.

C.D. — Mon, 12 Dec 2011 14:35:35 +0000

Déjà vu all over again. Same story, same blogs here about “this is the year that the Jenks/Union stranglehold is broken…”, and in the end (and no doubt to come) the same Westside Story musical of blame the school size and, rather than accept responsibility, expect the eastside schools to change (split) or create a new class. A bounce here or there, a missed opportunity, a “blown call” – any number of excuses about how the outcome would be different “if…” and yet year after year it isn’t different. Ryan, it’s time for you and your team to look in detail at this phenomenon. On Friday after the 6A final, John Klein with the World wrote an article “Union’s dominance continues with thrilling win” where he concluded with this analysis; he’s right:

“The four semifinalists were all Tulsa suburban schools – Union, Broken Arrow, Jenks and Owasso. Some wonder if the chasm between the state’s largest schools from Tulsa and Oklahoma City is getting larger rather than smaller. Broken Arrow’s emergence, along with that of Owasso, would seem to indicate the wealth is spreading around the Tulsa suburbs. That is no coincidence. It is a fact. Forget size of school or allegations of recruiting. The Tulsa area schools, now led by Union’s run, are dominating Oklahoma high school because they have the strongest football programs. Oklahoma City schools can claim to have better talent. In recent years, Oklahoma City area schools have produced a Heisman Trophy winner and No. 1 pick in the NFL draft (Putnam North’s Sam Bradford), a No. 3 pick in the NFL draft (Oklahoma City Southeast’s Gerald McCoy) and an All-American wide receiver (Norman’s Ryan Broyles). Plus, Oklahoma State’s run to a 10-1 record this year has been headlined by players from Edmond (quarterback Brandon Weeden) and Ardmore (wide receiver Justin Blackmon). It is hard to argue that the Tulsa schools have all of the talent in the face of such evidence. Nope, the Tulsa schools continue to win state championships because they devote more time, effort and resources. Highly-organized and structured youth football programs start in elementary school at schools like Jenks, Owasso, Broken Arrow and Union. By the time those athletes get to high school, they’ve played in a system with future teammates for five or more years. In addition, all of the suburban schools around Tulsa have highly-structured summer programs, deluxe facilities and organized booster groups. And, as Union proved again on Thursday night, they know how to win big games.”

The classic definition of insanity is to continue to do the same thing expecting different results. When and who on this side is ever going to get this, and more importantly – do something about it?