Comments on: Football playoff schedule for Nov. 25-26

By: Jim Burgar

Jim Burgar — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 14:56:41 +0000

As an old 1964 Lindsay grad and an out of stater and would like to know who the Lindsay football team plays this weekend. If it is posted on your website, please let me know where I can find it. Thanks, Jim

By: Been There

Been There — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 22:19:13 +0000

@Irish Mom, I think you completely missed the point. Yes it is America and so grateful we have the right to chose where we go and what we do. But if you chose to go there then you should compete against schools that have the same advantage, we are talking about sports not education. Although education is the most important reason but it is not always the reason someone choses to change.

By: Jake

Jake — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:35:44 +0000

Yes people say we have the advantage because we can get kids out of district but we are still at a disadvantage our sports have been moved up classes next year or this year, to 6a 5a and it’s ridiculous we will be playing teams with 4X as many kids as us…. It’s not fair to ruin a great historic sports school

By: Irish Mom

Irish Mom — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 14:52:52 +0000

@Been There, Those children are not the property of your “little High School” nor its Soccer team. They are not obligated to go there so that your school will have a better soccer team. It is despicable that our public schools are institutions of “envy” that see children as their property and seek to punish them when they leave the plantation. I could adequately defend all the charges that the public school monopoly levels at privates. I will address 2 of them. 1. “Private Schools recruit.” – Private schools are free-enterprise businesses. The only way they stay in business is to have satisfied customers buying their education product via tuition. Businesses have to recruit customers in order to stay in business. Public schools, on the other hand, get taxpayer funding regardless of the quality of the education product they provide to the students. Public schools don’t have to recruit customers nor deliver a good product because they get paid regardless. Keep in mind that those that leave the public school monopoly are still forced to surrender their property taxes to the public school monopoly. They do not get to take it with them to the private school. Furthermore, when a kid leaves the public school it means the teacher-to-student ratio goes up at that public school allowing teachers to give more and more individual attention to the remaining students. Private Schools are financial windfalls for public schools because the public school still gets to keep all the tax revenues yet not have to spend it on the vacating student. They can spend that money on classrooms and state of the art athletic facilities.. 2. The second charge is “Private schools offer scholarships.” – Even if that were true, why is that such a bad thing? Public schools offer a free-ride. Kids don’t have to pay a dime to go to public schools. Why then would it be a sin if they got to go to Private schools for free? The answer is simple: Public schools see children as their property. And when their “property” leaves the plantation, they seek to punish them. Is this not America? Are we simply property of our government and its institutions? Does life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness not apply to the education of our children?

By: Been There

Been There — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 21:23:54 +0000

@Irish Mom, I also know for a fact that athletes choose to go there based on the sport and how good they are. My child played competive soccer with several Edmond girls that chose to go there because of the soccer team and low and behold they won the State Championship, while our little High School has to use the hand it is dealt in the area. Hard to compete with that.

By: Not an Expert

Not an Expert — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:01:08 +0000

Jenks has only about 500 more students than Mustang and Edmond North. (2843, 2379 and 2322) Jenks is a small town, Broken Arrow is a city.

By: Toy Caldwell

Toy Caldwell — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 02:00:00 +0000

This OSSAA scheduling of the SEMIS FINALS is becoming quite the joke. The old lineups of 2 games on Saturday, before the title game worked great for years and everyone had a chance to watch both games and see all four teams. That was at Stillwater every year at OSU,s stadium. Had a 1;30 GAME AND A 7;30 GAME. Now they want local teams from Tulsa to travel to see just one game on a friday night. I guess they don’t call us just dumb Okies for nothing!!!!

By: John

John — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 01:55:26 +0000

@FormerBA-Dad, I really don’t care about you being tired of people griping about what they don’t have. What we don’t have is the number of students to choose from for our sports teams that those of the Tulsa AREA (with area being the key word) have. Very true that the bottom line is student/players have to perfrom on the field of play, but schools with excess of 4,700 students playing a school with less than 2,000 students does not sound real fair too me at all. Now if you think that is fair maybe you should run for president of the United States.

By: Paul

Paul — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:33:08 +0000

Go ahead and win all the State Championships. I would much rather have more school that would allow more players to experience playing football. How many kids never make the field with the churning of the player pool and skimming the cream from the top. But If you have that money to spend then you must have results.

By: OKFootball

OKFootball — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:34:42 +0000

I think a better question would be what is the benefit of Jenks, Union, and Broken Arrow splitting???? Put athletics aside, these schools are top in the state in academics. Jenks and Union every year have the most Nation Merit Semifinalists. They have small class sizes and top notch classroom facilities.

The big difference is the community is footing the bill for these improvements through bond issues. For example: Jenks just opened a new Math and Science center that’s state of the art. Including a Planetarium.

The difference in football starts at the 1st-7th grade levels where these schools have 600-700 youth players in organized teams that develop and prepare the kids for school ball.

If the West wants to realistically compete then it’s going to take an investment of money and team development that will likely take years. Until then the Western schools will be dependent upon the talent of a single class or a few gems that happen to be in their district instead of a program that reloads itself with strong developed players.

By: FormerBA-Dad

FormerBA-Dad — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:48:45 +0000

“The Tulsa schools get provided with much more funding then those of other area schools. Go look at their facilities and they speak for their own. Compare Union, Jenks or BA’s facilities to those in the city or down in Lawton, not even in the same category. Bottom line is the schools do not have the funding to pay multiple coaches or provide the school with new uniforms and training facilities every year as they do in Tulsa. Expert you should change your name to I don’t have a clue!”

John, first of all the schools in the 6A semi’s only Union is in the city of Tulsa and only a portion. The remaining portion is within BA city limits.

Second, these four school districts consistantly pass bond issues to provide the facilities for the students.

Third,each of these four districts have huge active booster clubs for their football programs in addition to other sports & activities. As a past football booster club officer, I know first hand the work involved to fundraise and provide a level of support to the team each year. Our goal each year was nearly $100K. We provided meals for the players on game days, purchased uniforms, replaced equipment, sent coaches to conferences, paid for the transportation to games, etc. The list is longer.

It’s not just football. Other student activities get the same parental support/involvement. Just look at the marching band programs in these 4 districts. BA just won the national championship and Owasso & Union were in the top 15 bands in the nation.

I get tired of people griping about what they don’t have. Do something about it. BA griped for years about Union & Jenks, BA made the decision to follow a course of action would provide the tools for success. In the end the student/players have to perform on the field of play.
School districts can only do so much the parents many times have to pick up the slack.

Now, in 3…2….1…. the comments about the need for BA to split their district. Not anyone’s business but their own.

By: Jake

Jake — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 06:49:01 +0000

Ya you are so ignorant it’s amazing just because peoe want a better life and don’t want their kids to have to watch a starting half back be carried our of drugs.. And we’ve made the play offs 24 years in a row whippet doo that still
Dosnt give u and idea of where ur playing next don’t overlook catoosa it will be the best game in the state friday

By: Irish Mom

Irish Mom — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 04:53:01 +0000

@ Red Tornado, congratulations on your choice to go to a public school. I don’t begrudge you that one bit. The difference is, you want to punish people for going to private school. Yes, we all pay taxes and every cent of those taxes go to the public schools. You should be thankful for Private schools. Imagine what it would do to the sacred student-to-teacher ratio if all the private schools kids left and invaded the public schools. You’d have a student to teacher ratio of close to 70-80 in the Oklahoma CIty Schools. Public schools benefit tremendously from Private schools. 1. The public schools get to keep 100% of the tax dollars. 2. The more kids in private schools the more attention each individual gets in the public schools. And no, Im not a stay at home mom, I work my *** off you sexist *****. How else do you think I pay my taxes to the public school system and then also dig even deeper in my pockets to afford private school tuition? It’s called work! I question the quality of education you have. You obviously have been indoctrinated in the disease of envy. You obviously have no respect for property rights, the freedom of individuals, and their right of association. You want to punish those that leave the education monopoly. You think that individuals are the property of the state. Your rhetoric of envy resembles that of a sadist. I have great respect for the small communities around this great state. I am from a small community myself. Im confident that your gospel of envy is not representative of the great individuals of Clinton, Ok. Im sure that they value their freedoms as much as anyone and respect those same freedoms of others.

By: Josh

Josh — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 04:28:35 +0000

Has the sites for the Class B and Class C Championships been set?

By: Red Tornando Fan

Red Tornando Fan — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 04:22:48 +0000

Well, “Jake” and “Irish Mom”, I am a product of pvt school, and public school, I know first hand of kids who have family who lived in Edmond and attended Mcguiness high, and played every sport they had to offer, I also, know that you have a choice to attended any school you want. After costing my family well over 10000, to attended a pvt school I chose to attend Clinton High and got the great education. One day, I watched my starting running back arrested and walked out of the school for drugs. So, I know that side of life, too. Poor people pay taxes. I have a job and pay taxes and work in a field where most of my co-workers send their kids to pvt schools in Tulsa and guess what they don’t live in Tulsa. If you look whose left to play in 3A, it evidence that, Hey, maybe the pvt schools are doing, just, a little better then the public schools. And I think those schools should be bumped up to 4A and the Irish to 5A. I love, how those who send their kids to pvt school, (my parents included) are like, the public schools here in oklahoma are soooo, bad. Its what you make it, get involved, help out. “Irish mom”, your a stay at mom, right? Im sure you’ve would have made a great, pta president at a public school. And don’t be bitter of your loss to a Clinton this yr. And “Jake”, not all rich people are “white”. And I attended Clinton, where we have played in the play-offs for 21 straight yrs now. So, I know where they are playing next.

By: Ryan Aber

Ryan Aber — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 03:36:13 +0000

Very true, Paul. It’s a different philosophy, for the most part, on the west side of the state vs. east. Each has its merits. For better or worse, one of the plusses for the way many east-side districts go is better football. Numbers are far from the only reason the east has been more dominant but feeding into one high school adds several other factors which also help.

By: Paul

Paul — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 03:13:37 +0000

The distance between Del City and Carl Albert is 5 miles. Midwest City sit in between the two. They are all in the Mid-Del District. If that distance was Jenks all those teams, in which 2 of them went 10-0 this year, would be one school. That is why Jenks doesn’t build another High School. Edmond has 3. Moore has 3.Putnam City has 3.And so on and so on. The districts have as many coaches as Jenks, they just are not coaching the same team.

By: Jake

Jake — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 02:22:35 +0000

Well red tornado nobody is recruited there is no scholarship.. And I don’t know if you have no idea the state of Oklahoma but if Clinton beats catoosa then the state would be in Stillwater.. Yes no where near Oklahoma actually a solid hour drive.. But even if the state game isn’t in a “neutral” location it’s always at ou or osu and don’t just refer to us as a bunch of rich kids cuz in no way does that mean we should have to drive farther.. Everyone should be treated equally I’m this sport.. But then again I doubt you think that because we are just a bunch of “rich white kids” right?

By: Ryan Aber

Ryan Aber — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 01:42:48 +0000

John, of course but there’s always going to be money considerations from school to school. The point was there’s nothing the OSSAA can (or should) do to fix THAT particular imbalance.

RTF, I’m not going to say there aren’t some competitive differences between publics and privates but to say “most of the kids that play there are from other towns” is a huge stretch. Of the players on McGuinness’ two title teams a few years ago, the vast majority came up through the Catholic school feeder system. Only two or three players, I believe, did not and those players are subject to the same transfer rules as they would be at any other school. Also, the title games are in Stillwater yet again this year.

By: Irish Mom

Irish Mom — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 01:40:59 +0000

@ Red Tornado, what evidence do you have that “most of the kids that play there are from other towns?” “What evidence do you have that “coaches go out and recruit athletes?” NONE! I know first hand that McGuinness coaches don’t recruit athletes. Lets remember that despite paying property taxes, the private schools do not receive one cent of taxes to fund their education. It all goes to the public schools. The private schools did not receive one cent of MAPS. All the money that private school parents paid in taxes were diverted to Douglas, John Marshall, etc and built them new schools and state of the art football stadiums and facilities. Red Tornado, do you run your own business or are you a sloth that lives off the taxpayer? If you are a businessman, you would understand that private companies have to market their services, They have to go and recruit customers. Students are customers at private schools. Of course in the public schools they are treated as slaves because the public schools can compel the taxpayers to fund them via property taxes regardless the quality of education they provide. So, not only do you want to soak up the property taxes of parents who choose to leave the public school system, you also want to deny the privates schools, that don’t receive one cent of taxes, the ability to recruit customers and now you want to force private schoolers to spend even more money to drive further distances to game. How much is enough? Huh? How much more do you want me to work? Huh? Are you a freedom loving America or simply a big government welfare sloth that sucks off the tit of the producers of society? I’m a mother of 2 boys that works her @ss off so my boys are not subject to metal detectors and pat downs that are the norm every day in Oklahoma City high schools. We don’t have local control of public schools here in OKC. You do have that in a community like Clinton and Elk CIty, -Communities I admire very much and enjoy visiting on Friday nights. We private school parents want the same thing that you in CLinton, ELk CIty, etc.have. We simply want a say in our kids education and you do not have that in the Oklahoma CIty Public School System. I would encourage you to rethink your bias and stereo types of the private schools. We are simply Americans, Oklahomans, trying to provide our kids a quality education.

By: Red Tornando Fan

Red Tornando Fan — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 23:53:53 +0000

I think all pvt schools should be thrown into their own district, since they most of the kids that play there are from other towns. It depends on how well the coaches go out and recruit. Ofcourse 3A is a great example of that this year And 4A with McGuinness. As for the difference in the drive times “Jake”, good, rich kids should drive farther. Don’t worry they will have a shorter distance to drive if Clinton handles Catoosa this Friday. And Mcguinness beats Wagoner. Since the finals are in okc area. I don’t think the Clinton fans will be complaining.

By: John

John — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 23:41:22 +0000

Ryan you are a reporter right? Well why don’t you do some reasearch before you post something you obviously have no knowledge about. I am referring to your comment, “There’s nothing stopping any of the other schools from getting that many coaches”. Well have you ever heard of anything called money. The Tulsa schools get provided with much more funding then those of other area schools. Go look at their facilities and they speak for their own. Compare Union, Jenks or BA’s facilities to those in the city or down in Lawton, not even in the same category. Bottom line is the schools do not have the funding to pay multiple coaches or provide the school with new uniforms and training facilities every year as they do in Tulsa. Expert you should change your name to I don’t have a clue!

By: Ryan Aber

Ryan Aber — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 21:14:37 +0000

Understand your point, Jake, but it’s nowhere near as close to Wagoner as 15 minutes. According to Google Maps, it’s 1:31 from McGuinness High to Sapulpa and 0:58 from Wagoner High to Sapulpa. Has nothing to do with the fact McGuinness is private. They have to find a suitable venue that is as neutral as possible and is willing to host. They have a limited number of those sites available.

By: Bill

Bill — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 21:13:11 +0000

I agree with Jake about some of the distances teams have to drive. Union and Jenks is a joke. However you are not going to drive form Wagoner to Sapulpa in 15 min.

By: Jake

Jake — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:37:52 +0000

Ossaa what is ur problem with private school? The “neutral” location is 1 30 away from mcguiness and about 15 minutes for wagoner

By: expert

expert — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 18:14:46 +0000

The size of the schools did not make Midwest City miss an easy field goal that would have won the game in regulation. The size of the schools did not make a Midwest City defender drop an easy interception that you have won the game for Midwest City in the last Owasso drive. Midwest City just did not make the plays needed to win the game.

By: Ryan Aber

Ryan Aber — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:49:43 +0000

They used to do it like that in the second round (and third in 2A and A), as well as play more semifinals on Saturday. But a few years ago, coaches asked the OSSAA to go back to playing the majority of games on Friday.

By: Dawg Fan

Dawg Fan — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 14:58:41 +0000

How about playing half of each class playoff games on fri night and the other half sat night? It would be better for all HS football fans. Alot of people would hit a game each night. Think of the gate. Be alot better for the teams playing also, as it would make it fun for coaches and players to scout oppposing teams.

By: Ryan Aber

Ryan Aber — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 03:03:26 +0000

A point about the 6A sites. I agree, it’s not a good situation to have Tulsa-area teams traveling to Stillwater and Muskogee for the semifinals. But what stadiums in the Tulsa area would work? Broken Arrow and Union are the two most obvious choices. While it might be ideal to play Broken Arrow-Owasso at Union and Union-Jenks at Broken Arrow, those host schools still have to find workers for the game and they’re understandably reluctant to host games when their teams are playing at the same time. A complicating factor was the OSSAA setting the 6A title game for Thursday night, which made playing a Saturday doubleheader at TU untenable for the teams. I understand that TV wants certainly over which game will be played when but a bit of flexibility there would’ve been nice, allowing them to slide the 5A or 4A game up into that slot to make for a better situation this weekend.

By: Ryan Aber

Ryan Aber — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:59:20 +0000

There’s nothing stopping any of the other schools from getting that many coaches. Those things are not the responsibility of the OSSAA. The districts change next year, as they do every two years. And it’s also not pure numbers that have Union and Jenks winning those titles. Broken Arrow’s bigger than both of them and they haven’t won a title during that span either.

By: John

John — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 23:57:08 +0000

How long is the OSSAA going to keep the districts the way they are? An all four final of Tulsa teams in 6A. Either Union or Jenks state champs for the past 15 years. Those schools have WAY more kids then those of the rest of the state. Just compare their athletic facilities. Not even a close comparison to those other non Tulsa area teams. If you want teams from somewhere else to be competitve against other teams that are definitley in a league of their own, then put some more money into those programs. If you don’t think I know what I am talking about just compare how many PAID coasches Jenks, Broken Arrow, Union, or Owasso have and compare them to the about 30% of those numbers for the rest of the state. I believe this is rediciulous and the OSSAA should fire everyone involved in making these decisions.

By: C

Sat, 19 Nov 2011 23:24:25 +0000

Championship are already preset. Stillwater, Boone Pickens

By: Red Tornando Fan

Red Tornando Fan — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 21:34:42 +0000

Everybody get ready for Clinton vs Catoosa!!! It’s going to be the best game in the state. Clinton owes them one from last year.

By: S Robbins

S Robbins — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 20:51:42 +0000

REALLY, OSSAA? Making all the Union and Jenks fans drive to Stillwater? C’mon use your brain…plenty of stadiums in the Tulsa area. It’s bad enought to make BA/OWASSO drive to Muskogee. You’ll probably fail for the championship game also…