Comments on: Class 6A Top 10

By: C.D.

C.D. — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 15:16:51 +0000

I know its an eastside event and not popular on this side, but man oh man, do we have a game next week! Owasso gave BA all they could handle for most of the game, and Union/Jenks – well it was Union/Jenks! What a game, yet again (and again, and again …)! So many of those games over the years come down to one or two key plays, turnovers, stops, etc., and last night was full of ‘em. Two things stand out that will play a part I think next week – Jenks and Union players praying together before the game and milling around in twos and threes together long after the game is over. Amazing respect for each other and each other’s program. And Union refusing to lose. Respect and that intangible. Union has lived on the edge these past two seasons, and it got ‘em w/ Owasso earlier in the year (albeit after lots of injuries in the game), but how do you explain so many comebacks and hang-ons last year culminating in the Lawton and Jenks games, and then this year with the first BA and then the last two weeks with Edmond North and Jenks? Everyone talks about the old “Sooner Magic” back in the day; it’s landed on South Mingo these days. That said, BA is clearly the better talent – it would be stretching it to find one D-1 player on Union. But is the magic, and I believe coaching as well, enough for Union? Can the biggest school finally wake up enough to get over the hump? If you can put your west/east prejudice aside, just for the sake of great football, the 6A finals will be worth watching. And if Mac and Guthrie come through, that’ll be one for the ages too. HS football is SO much more fun to watch than college or pros! Where else can you find 16-19 year old young men actually listening, focused, and doing what they are told to do??! And then we’ll have the top 2 for sure, and the rest don’t get trophies anyway – no one posts articles in their trophy case about the year they took 5th.

By: Ryan Aber

Ryan Aber — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 05:57:00 +0000

G,
There’s certainly room to debate both Union and Broken Arrow but Broken Arrow did beat Owasso (twice now) and Union didn’t. I understand the circumstances of that game which are why I picked Union to win the title despite having Broken Arrow No. 1.

Also, Edmond North was very good, especially defensively, but it’s hard to call them the most talented team on the west side. Not only did they not win their district, they finished third.

By: g

Sat, 26 Nov 2011 05:43:04 +0000

Union got beat by owasso after losing the QB, two running backs and a tight end and a wide receivers, one running back going to hospital. Owasso won, Union lost, and thats fine. Skins just now getting team back. Edmond north played a great game. Union came through beating the most talented team on the west side. How is it that people think BA is top team when union beat BA, Jenks twice, Edmond North and Stillwater .Go Redskins , win that state title and make it four straight.

By: C.D.

C.D. — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 18:48:55 +0000

Brad, if it came across that I minimized Jenks’ performance, then I didn’t do them justice. They clearly were the better team and in the end justly won the game on every front. That said, if Ross hadn’t ripped off that 90+ yarder, and the Santa Fe player hadn’t dropped that perfect pass going south against the wind and scored, then Jenks most likely would have been playing catch-up in the 4th. The outcome of a Jenks win would have still been a strong probability considering that the Jenks line had worn them down by then and the O was eating up big chunks, but for most of the game it wasn’t the runaway the score might have indicated. As for Union, they are a tale of two teams. The D’s as solid as I’ve seen them, the O is schizophrenic – when they are on they’re impressive; when they are off (like last Friday) they are a liability. Jenks will be steady – they get the best of their players this year for sure, but in order to win I think they will need Ross to have a good night, and hope for the Union from last week to show up.
The sleeper in all this is BA. Obviously took union to the wire and topped Jenks. If Jenks and Union beat themselves up this week, it sets a clear path for the Tigers (I think the Owasso magic is used up).
Santa Fe is going to be fun to watch with lots of youngsters coming back (as long as Hanson stays healthy).

By: Rdo

Rdo — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:33:08 +0000

Brad – Bixby is a newcomer to 6A and the new coach’s style of accountability didn’t sit well with some of the old guard players and they quit in droves.
Yet somehow they have made the playoffs in both of his years as head coach. Not the level of success at Jenks but I do see progress considering what he is working with.

By: GURU

GURU — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 16:38:47 +0000

Brad agreed about Holmes and Union. Santa Fe-North ten point game in which North turned the ball over 5 times. 17 of Santa Fe points coming off of turnovers. As far as your comparison to Midwest City. That district was far weaker than Santa Fe, Edmond North, Westmoore, and Lawton which went 3-1 first round.

Santa Fe is a very good football team with a lot of juniors. But they lose several seniors on a defense that was pretty average.

By: Brad

Brad — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 15:36:55 +0000

I’ll also add that I’m not forming my opinion on how Union played last week. They did the same thing last year and won it all. I’ve just watched them since they lost Kendall Holmes and they don’t appear to be as dangerous as they once were.

By: Brad

Brad — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 15:35:14 +0000

Guru, I don’t recall but who won the North-Sante Fe match-up this year? I believe it was Sante Fe and if I’m accurate they scored over 30 points. No doubt North’s defense was stout but I think it was more of a reflection on who they played versus how actually good their defense was. Kind of like how MWC was undefeated against all West Side teams. Sante Fe’s defense was actually pretty good but young. They were put in some difficult spots by their offense last week. I don’t really care who wins this week, I just call em like I see em. Sante Fe impressed me and North did not. Union and Jenks are both really banged up so that may play a part in the game but I still think Jenks is a little better, at least with Ross back close to 100%. Just my opinion.

By: GURU

GURU — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 15:21:30 +0000

Brad I think you underestimate the fact that Edmond North’s defense allowed 9 points per game this year and that had alot to do with how Union performed. No doubt Santa Fe has the offensive firepower to compete but did not have close to a championship caliber defense. Had Santa Fe been as good as North on defense they would win it all this year.

By: Brad

Brad — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 15:13:36 +0000

Sorry for such a delayed response CD but I think you’re a little off about Lancaster, although it’s really pointless to argue about. Sounds like you have some inside information though. I completely agree with you that at the moment, or at least until they lost several coaches this year, Union is better coached. Jenks had by far the better team last year and got completely out-coached in the championship.

I also think you are minimizing Jenks’ performance last week. Sante Fe is a really good team and especially good on offense. I think if Union plays Sante Fe instead of North Last week, they don’t make it to the semifinals. The game was competitive as it should be at this stage, but Jenks had control for most of the game. If not for some questionable coaching decisions in the first half, Jenks goes into halftime with a three td lead. It should be a good game this week but I really think Jenks is the better team at this point. And by the way, i’m not a Jenks homer, just an unbiased obeserver(kids go to Bixby). By the way, the jury is still out about the former Jenks assistant now coaching Bixby – not off to a good start.

By: H

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 04:34:56 +0000

MDUB, I hope you are a kid and not an adult. Hopefully as an adult you wouldn’t talk about a group of kids like you just did. I think that it is wonderful that you are passionate about the east side. They are all awesome and dominate the west every year, but to call kids classless or bummers is well….classless. As passionate as you are about the east side, the west side folks are equally as passionate about their teams. Each year we have hopes that this will be the year a west team pulls it off. Please don’t mistake that for “Whining”. We have several good teams on this side of the state and we believe in our kids. We are so proud of our kids. So, just because parents are on here stating that they think their childs team might be the one that pulls it off this year doesn’t make us stupid or ignorant. We just have faith in our boys. Once again, things did not work out the way we had hoped but we will still have faith in our boys and hope that someday the west will rise against the east teams.

CD, thanks for giving Santa Fe a little credit. We didn’t pull it off on Jenks, but our boys had an AMAZING year! One we never would have dreamed of at the beginning of the season. Justice Hansen is amazing and such a good kid. I can’t wait to watch his career unfold and someday watch him at the next level.

By: C.D.

C.D. — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:17:11 +0000

Hey T, I’ve got a story for you. Now try to stay focused till the end.
One Saturday years ago I was at one of those country auctions where they sell any and everything. Great entertainment. I had gone to get a coke when I saw a little boy with a box full of mutt puppies to give away. Right next to him was this well-dressed gentleman, obviously well-heeled and well-off, and he had a cage with five Labrador puppies for sale for $250 each. This old farmer in overalls walked up with his hands in his pockets, looked at the boy and his box of puppies, and then asked that gentleman, “Why would I pay you $250 for a dog when I can get one from the boy for free?” The man then went into great length and detail about the lineage of these dogs, how they were registered and “had papers,” how the mother and father were both great duck retrievers and offspring easy to train, what a great family pet they made – all in all a great selling job. Heck, I even wanted to buy one, and I already had a lab (not as fancy, mind you, but he did chase away stray cats). The old farmer nodded, thought awhile, and then addressed the man again. “Okay, but tell me, why would I pay you $250 for a dog when I can get one from the boy for free?”

T, you remind me of that farmer.

By: The Best is in BA

The Best is in BA — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:01:40 +0000

There is no reason BA should be anything less than #1.
They have the best Head Coach and O.C. and they got them from Union and Jenks. Just sayin.

By: T

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:52:35 +0000

Owasso is not one of the top four teams in the state this year or last if not for SIZE (ADM). Over 12-14 week season having twice the number of players to choose from gets them to the semis along with their three big brothers. SIZE is the only thing that matters! It’s not coaching or program kids (lol). It’s OU vs. Tulsa every week!

By: Babe the Blue Ox

Babe the Blue Ox — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:04:27 +0000

Is it typical for the Midwest City players to leave their gear on the field after the last loss of the season. I was surprised to see helmets, jerseys, shoulder pads etc. littered across the field after the game ended. Most coaches wouldn’t allow that type of behavior.

By: Ryan Aber

Ryan Aber — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:57:50 +0000

Guru,
You’re absolutely right. Got that fixed. Thanks for pointing it out.

By: GURU

GURU — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:54:23 +0000

HEY RYAN WHY DO YOU HAVE WESTMOORE’S RECORD AS 8-3 WHEN THEY FINISHED 7-4???? THEY LOST TO MWC, LAWTON, NORTH, AND SANTA FE..

By: C.D.

C.D. — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:53:51 +0000

It’ll be interesting Guru. Saw the Jenks game and pretty average performance. With the exception of a couple of Ross’ homeruns, and that game was close. Santa Fe isn’t a fluke, but shouldn’t be in that game for as along as they were. That Hansen kid is amazing – he WAS their offense. If the Union that beat Stillwater and the BY Bowl shows up, they’ll handle Jenks. The one from last week and Owasso shows up, and Jenks will have what it takes. Jenks is solid, but not the dominating team of even last year. But when these two meet, its always one or two key plays. Earlier this year it was the 100+ yd interception return that turned a tie into a 14 point swing. A backbreaker. Union’s D is solid 90% of the time, but on occasion leaks like a sieve. Their O can run it up quick, or wobble worse than any in their history. Jenks will need some extraordinary play from an average QB becaue Union will bottle up Ross; he may hit one or two homeruns, but that’ll be it and lots of three and outs if they can’t pass. Jenks D will be solid and Union will have to earn it. It’ll come down most likely to those key plays and turnovers – more often than not a toss up, and this most likely the same – neither is dominant.

By: C.D.

C.D. — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:44:32 +0000

Brad, no doubt about Lancaster, but he also inherited much at Jenks from Beaver and Rogers before him. But he was only given that opportunity by way of his success at Enid. the problem with Lancaster was the chaos and dead bodies he left behind. No different at Salisaw and Muskogee before BA, he created more problems than the good he did, and he always jumped ship just ahead of the axe. And Bixby as well as BA benefits from Jenks for sure, but so did BTW, for awhile (but that’s another story). And just for fun and FYI, I graduated a Trojan and kids did as well; doesn’t change my admiration for either program, but right now the Union staff and program is the better (albeit a slim margin) in my opinion.

By: GURU

GURU — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:14:23 +0000

No doubt the East side dominated once again. But I must say Edmond North played Union’s butt off. North dominated the 2nd half. North’s defense held Union to its lowest totals all year including compared to all the East side powers! Jenks will beat Union in the Semi-Finals.

By: MDUB

MDUB — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:03:12 +0000

MWC, the number one team in the state is out again. Surprise, surprise. The losing tradition continues for the classless team that does everything wrong and thinks they can win it every year. Even with overwhelming more talent than other teams, they continue to LOSE. I agree with C.D., yes, size of school matters, but so does character. Message to the west “powers” (laughable) get better, or shut up about it! That’s the bottom line. The east side schools have a different vocabulary, the east focuses on WINNING, the west focuses on WHINING! Stop painting your shoes and running your mouth and start getting it done. I’m so sick of hearing about how this year’s team is so good and “different” from the previous 16. Different year, same results, MWC Bummers get out coached and out played year after year. Stop running your mouth about it and do something!

By: Brad

Brad — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:00:11 +0000

C.D.,

I know you’re a Union homer but don’t underestimate the impact of the foundation Lancaster laid at B.A. Additionally, BA has some former Jenks staffers as well. Your point remains the same but the whole change in systems really began with Lancaster and later emulated by Blankenship and Trimble and their staffers who are spread throughout the state. I’m a huge Blankenship fan also but give credit where it’s due.

By: C.D.

C.D. — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:23:07 +0000

This argument is old T; every year at this time the same blame game instead of taking personal responsibility. Does size have an influence? Absolutely. Put Union on the field against Watonga and see what happens. Is it absolute? Try putting U.S. Grant against Millwood and see what happens. Owasso didn’t beat MWC becausw they have a bigger school population, they had fewer D- 1 players on the field, and most certainly no more overall talent. Its because they have program players and are used to being in those close games and playoffs. Listen to the interview w/ Gallagher from Owasso in the “Owasso outlasts MWC in OT” clip on the HS page here; that tells the whole story about how they won that game. It should not have been close – MWC was dominating and should have finished it, but failed yet one more year. It’s a whole lot easier to blame school size that to accept responsibility for a lack of facilities, comprehensive youth programs organized to develop players for the High School (and not just win pee-wee championships), and average coaches. Union, Muskogee, BA, and Owasso all have programs that are headed by Blankenship protégés (Owasso indirectly through Fridrich when he was there before coming back to Union). And THAT is a BIG key. Look what Blankenship did at TU this year – lose to three top ten programs (OU, OSU, Boise) and then rip all the other competition. Union under Blankenship won two straight gold balls, and then the year he went to TU Union hired a “successful” coach from Indiana who took the virtual same team and went 7-4, getting beat in the first round to an inferior Muskogee team. After Union dumped him for Fridrich to come back (from stints in Stillwater and Owasso after being an assistant under Blankenship, and look what those programs have done, including facilities and coaches) that very same team beat Jenks (defending state champ) in the Backyard Bowl, and then lost in the finals to them. The the next year they started the streak of gold balls that continues. That speaks volumes; only programs over here won’t listen. Only some now are. Muskogee almost made the playoffs with a young, first-year coach Blankenship Jr. Norman North hired several coaches from Union and made the playoffs with marginal talent, doing as well in the end as the much more heralded Norman team. Deer Creek – under a Superintendent who was raised in the Union system – just changed their new middle school to a ninth grade center and is in the middle of a major upgrade to their facilities. Can you see the handwriting there? And the irony is this is the year where there is a real possibility of breaking the Jenks/Union “stranglehold” as it is often described here, but it ain’t a Westside team that’s in the driver’s seat, it’s an awakening giant in BA, but now with a past-Union staff. Scary proposition!
But let’s say we’ll take this worn-out argument ONE MORE TIME (*sigh*). Instead of sniveling and insisting these schools be brought down to your level, why don’t MWC, Edmond, Norman, and Moore combine their schools and make grade centers at each campus? Bartlesville did it years ago combining College and Sooner high schools. That option is available too. But then during the season you only have 11 on the field at any one time instead of 33 in Edmond and Moore for example. No, you want the proverbial “have your cake and eat it too.” I’ll but a 7A before I’ll ever agree to splitting schools – that is the kiss of death as they turn from teammates to the biggest rivals, and in the end divide communities.
Ryan, at the end of the season I’d like to see a series on this, beginning with an interview with Coach Blankenship, and what he sees now from the perspective he’s in. This speculative argument won’t go away until it’s looked at in depth.

By: GURU

GURU — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:07:14 +0000

Hey just checking. Ryan and Scott I did not see a write up about the Edmond North-Tusla Union game? I know it was close why no article??

By: T

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 03:28:48 +0000

Largest 4 teams in the state in the semis. Guess size does matter!

By: C.D.

C.D. — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 02:44:14 +0000

The Union that showed up at Southmoore, Stillwater, and the first Jenks game is the best team by far. The Union that played Edmond North and Owasso won’t get past Jenks and deserves a #4 ranking. Hope it’s the former that shows up this Friday! The only ranking that counts is the last one, and if you’re any of the four teams left, nothing after the gold ball is worth bragging about.

By: Shane Edmounds

Shane Edmounds — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 22:03:12 +0000

Sounds like Mike is just a Union fan who when his team isn’t ranked number one, gets a little grumpy!

By: Ryan Aber

Ryan Aber — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:47:47 +0000

Mike, Thanks for the comment but there is more to the ranking than just head to head. Ideally, that would be the tiebreaker but they also both played Owasso. Scores: Broken Arrow 48, Owasso 20; Owasso 41, Tulsa Union 38.

I picked Tulsa Union to win the 6A title when the playoffs began. But right now, they’re ranked where their season has earned them.

By: Mike Stone

Mike Stone — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:39:04 +0000

Ryan, you might as well stop doing this ranking. When two teams have identical records the first tie breaker is head-to-head competition. For you to continue to put BA ahead of Union is laughable. You make it very difficult to take your work seriously.