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	<title>Comments on: Big 12 football: A plan for Notre Dame &amp; BYU</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2012/06/27/big-12-football-a-plan-for-notre-dame-byu/feed/?skip_red=True" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2012/06/27/big-12-football-a-plan-for-notre-dame-byu/</link>
	<description>Thoughts from The Oklahoman Sports Columnist Berry Tramel &#124; NewsOK.com</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 22 Apr 2013 20:41:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Josher</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2012/06/27/big-12-football-a-plan-for-notre-dame-byu/comment-page-1/#comment-144982</link>
		<dc:creator>Josher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 16:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/?p=9642#comment-144982</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BYU wouldn&#039;t necessarily jump at the opportunity unless the national exposure was ultimately elevated. Understand this about BYU: the athletics program is not designed to bring in money, but to advertise the school and, ultimately, the religion.

Unless you&#039;re a Latter-day Saint or have lived in the Wasatch Front, it&#039;s nearly impossible to understand how big a deal it is to have national commentators talking about the effects and experiences of the two-year full-time mission....

That&#039;s a value that&#039;s tough to put a dollar sign to.

And others are correct - if the conference doesn&#039;t exempt BYU from Sunday play, that conference is out of the question (part of why the PAC-12 wasn&#039;t an option for BYU). That&#039;s the bottom line. Nobody wants to join a conference knowing they&#039;ll end up forfeiting a third of their games, and no conference wants to do that to their schedule.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BYU wouldn&#8217;t necessarily jump at the opportunity unless the national exposure was ultimately elevated. Understand this about BYU: the athletics program is not designed to bring in money, but to advertise the school and, ultimately, the religion.</p>
<p>Unless you&#8217;re a Latter-day Saint or have lived in the Wasatch Front, it&#8217;s nearly impossible to understand how big a deal it is to have national commentators talking about the effects and experiences of the two-year full-time mission&#8230;.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a value that&#8217;s tough to put a dollar sign to.</p>
<p>And others are correct &#8211; if the conference doesn&#8217;t exempt BYU from Sunday play, that conference is out of the question (part of why the PAC-12 wasn&#8217;t an option for BYU). That&#8217;s the bottom line. Nobody wants to join a conference knowing they&#8217;ll end up forfeiting a third of their games, and no conference wants to do that to their schedule.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2012/06/27/big-12-football-a-plan-for-notre-dame-byu/comment-page-1/#comment-128285</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2012 16:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/?p=9642#comment-128285</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fellow Sooners....keep the religion out of the argument....Catholics are Christians.....Mormons accept and worship Christ.  Don&#039;t bring out the worst of man&#039;s nature...keep the bigotry buried.  Write about football...there you have expertise.   Personally, ND and BYU should be all in or we should look elsewhere.  We don&#039;t need any more prima donas in the Big 12...UT is enough...talk about selling out....5 games with Big 12 teams is enough to claim a conference championship?  NOT...as we see anything can happen on any given Saturday...or Friday....just ask OSU about ISU!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fellow Sooners&#8230;.keep the religion out of the argument&#8230;.Catholics are Christians&#8230;..Mormons accept and worship Christ.  Don&#8217;t bring out the worst of man&#8217;s nature&#8230;keep the bigotry buried.  Write about football&#8230;there you have expertise.   Personally, ND and BYU should be all in or we should look elsewhere.  We don&#8217;t need any more prima donas in the Big 12&#8230;UT is enough&#8230;talk about selling out&#8230;.5 games with Big 12 teams is enough to claim a conference championship?  NOT&#8230;as we see anything can happen on any given Saturday&#8230;or Friday&#8230;.just ask OSU about ISU!</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2012/06/27/big-12-football-a-plan-for-notre-dame-byu/comment-page-1/#comment-128260</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 22:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/?p=9642#comment-128260</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would absolutely be a fan of this. It solves a lot of problems, plus we&#039;d be bringing in programs that have proven they&#039;re valuable enough to stand on their own and that can compete well in the 2 major sports. It&#039;s actually something I think all parties might consider. A classic &quot;win-win&quot;. 

Make it happen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would absolutely be a fan of this. It solves a lot of problems, plus we&#8217;d be bringing in programs that have proven they&#8217;re valuable enough to stand on their own and that can compete well in the 2 major sports. It&#8217;s actually something I think all parties might consider. A classic &#8220;win-win&#8221;. </p>
<p>Make it happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Buffalochip1</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2012/06/27/big-12-football-a-plan-for-notre-dame-byu/comment-page-1/#comment-128253</link>
		<dc:creator>Buffalochip1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 18:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/?p=9642#comment-128253</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am a long time BYU fan and graduate / masters degree graduate.  I absolutely support a BYU move to the BIG12, and I don&#039;t know any &quot;real&quot; BYU fan who doesn&#039;t support it.  As I see it, the only deal-killer is Sunday Play, and I have no doubt that it could be worked out without major heartburn, and in all sports.  (BYU may have to pick up the tab for some addition costs, but I&#039;d bet money that they would take on the additional financial commitment in a heartbeat.)  So, what&#039;s in it for the BIG12?  Most importantly, BYU can pay for itself.  BYU puts butts in seats (60,000 to 65,000 on a consistent basis at home), and is a very good road draw due to its national fan base.  I live in the D.C. area, and we drew 5,000 to a UVA game -- and the game was the first ever at UVA&#039;s expanded stadium.  We sold every seat they allocated to us, and then we sold every seat that their own fan base couldn&#039;t sell.  We also draw decent ratings on TV, which is why ESPN was willing to cut the TV deal with BYU.  Count on it, they did NOT do it for charity.  We don&#039;t appeal as much as UT and OU, but we would be competitive or even possibly exceed everyone else in the league.  Aside from the &quot;Mormon Haters&quot;, I believe that most BIG12 fans would support the addition.  

Now, the Granddaddy of them all:  If the BIG12 can get Notre Dame, then adding BYU makes even more sense.  Think about the national draw that would be created by the addition of both teams.  (Yes, I know that ND is a bigger draw than BYU, but the symmetry of adding both teams which already have national networks and national drawing power would be an addition that no other conference could ever duplicate.)  It might even lock down the BIG12 as &quot;the other conference&quot; that no one else can effectively raid, just as the SEC is right now.  

This is a win-win for all parties concerned.  I hope that it can happen.  Take care, and best of wishes to the BIG12, whatever decisions might be made.  

Buffalochip1]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a long time BYU fan and graduate / masters degree graduate.  I absolutely support a BYU move to the BIG12, and I don&#8217;t know any &#8220;real&#8221; BYU fan who doesn&#8217;t support it.  As I see it, the only deal-killer is Sunday Play, and I have no doubt that it could be worked out without major heartburn, and in all sports.  (BYU may have to pick up the tab for some addition costs, but I&#8217;d bet money that they would take on the additional financial commitment in a heartbeat.)  So, what&#8217;s in it for the BIG12?  Most importantly, BYU can pay for itself.  BYU puts butts in seats (60,000 to 65,000 on a consistent basis at home), and is a very good road draw due to its national fan base.  I live in the D.C. area, and we drew 5,000 to a UVA game &#8212; and the game was the first ever at UVA&#8217;s expanded stadium.  We sold every seat they allocated to us, and then we sold every seat that their own fan base couldn&#8217;t sell.  We also draw decent ratings on TV, which is why ESPN was willing to cut the TV deal with BYU.  Count on it, they did NOT do it for charity.  We don&#8217;t appeal as much as UT and OU, but we would be competitive or even possibly exceed everyone else in the league.  Aside from the &#8220;Mormon Haters&#8221;, I believe that most BIG12 fans would support the addition.  </p>
<p>Now, the Granddaddy of them all:  If the BIG12 can get Notre Dame, then adding BYU makes even more sense.  Think about the national draw that would be created by the addition of both teams.  (Yes, I know that ND is a bigger draw than BYU, but the symmetry of adding both teams which already have national networks and national drawing power would be an addition that no other conference could ever duplicate.)  It might even lock down the BIG12 as &#8220;the other conference&#8221; that no one else can effectively raid, just as the SEC is right now.  </p>
<p>This is a win-win for all parties concerned.  I hope that it can happen.  Take care, and best of wishes to the BIG12, whatever decisions might be made.  </p>
<p>Buffalochip1</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2012/06/27/big-12-football-a-plan-for-notre-dame-byu/comment-page-1/#comment-128252</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 17:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/?p=9642#comment-128252</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[WVA and TCU have had a couple of good years on the field but it takes more than that to be considered a great program.  Oklahoma State is beginning to get to that status because of money flowing into the program paying for upgrades to facilities.  The rest of the Big XII are second tier football programs.  Kansas is a first tier basketball program.  WVA and TCU fit the mold of Texas Tech and Baylor.  Looking at other conferences for great football programs, Big East 0; ACC 2 (FSU-Miami) SEC 4 (Alabama,-LSU-Florida-Auburn with several on cusp); B1G 4 (Ohio State-Michigan-Wisconsin-Penn State with several on the cusp); Pac 12 2 (USC-Oregon).  That is looking at income, facilities, reputation, and performance.  The Big XII has 2 1/2 (Texas, OU, and the half is OSU they are getting there but need to gain sustained performance and reputation.)  Notre Dame is a great football program.  They have income, facilities, and reputation.  They need to increase on field performance.  BYU is NOT a great football program.  So, I hope Texas is not looking to add BYU and if Notre Dame doesn&#039;t fully join I hope Texas says we would rather not have Notre Dame as a part time member.  Remember every school in the Big XII gets one vote on expansion except Texas and they get 10 votes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WVA and TCU have had a couple of good years on the field but it takes more than that to be considered a great program.  Oklahoma State is beginning to get to that status because of money flowing into the program paying for upgrades to facilities.  The rest of the Big XII are second tier football programs.  Kansas is a first tier basketball program.  WVA and TCU fit the mold of Texas Tech and Baylor.  Looking at other conferences for great football programs, Big East 0; ACC 2 (FSU-Miami) SEC 4 (Alabama,-LSU-Florida-Auburn with several on cusp); B1G 4 (Ohio State-Michigan-Wisconsin-Penn State with several on the cusp); Pac 12 2 (USC-Oregon).  That is looking at income, facilities, reputation, and performance.  The Big XII has 2 1/2 (Texas, OU, and the half is OSU they are getting there but need to gain sustained performance and reputation.)  Notre Dame is a great football program.  They have income, facilities, and reputation.  They need to increase on field performance.  BYU is NOT a great football program.  So, I hope Texas is not looking to add BYU and if Notre Dame doesn&#8217;t fully join I hope Texas says we would rather not have Notre Dame as a part time member.  Remember every school in the Big XII gets one vote on expansion except Texas and they get 10 votes.</p>
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		<title>By: Darrell</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2012/06/27/big-12-football-a-plan-for-notre-dame-byu/comment-page-1/#comment-128251</link>
		<dc:creator>Darrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 17:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/?p=9642#comment-128251</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Galileo, Houston

Marginal programs like TCU and WVU? How about Kansas State, Kansas, Iowa State, Oklahoma State, Baylor, Texas Tech, Missouri, Texas A&amp;M and Colorado.

The only power schools in the B12 are Texas and Oklahoma.

I assume you are using historic significance to determine who is marginal and who isn&#039;t. So I guess that would Make Army a power school because they won a national title or two about 200 years ago.  Notre Dame was a strong program 25 years ago.

Clemson has had one great year in their schools history back in like 1981 when they won their only title. They did nothing before and have done nothing since.

Florida State is a program that had a great 15 year run from the late 80&#039;s to the early 2000&#039;s. They were worthless prior to that, and have been worthless for at least 10 years.

Yet you think they are &quot;great programs?&quot; FSU can&#039;t even afford to pay their bills, which is why tehy were looking to leave the ACC in the first place.

Galileo, you are just a clueless fan that probably follows Texas even though you most likely never attended Texas. There are only two schools in the B12 that can say they are better overall in football that TCU or WVU and that is Texas (which is why I am sure you probably like them) and Oklahoma. The rest are at best even with TCU and WVU, and as far succes during the BCS era goes, they are both above the rest of the conference members.

You are just some little guy that never gets out of your own little box you call &quot;the world.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Galileo, Houston</p>
<p>Marginal programs like TCU and WVU? How about Kansas State, Kansas, Iowa State, Oklahoma State, Baylor, Texas Tech, Missouri, Texas A&amp;M and Colorado.</p>
<p>The only power schools in the B12 are Texas and Oklahoma.</p>
<p>I assume you are using historic significance to determine who is marginal and who isn&#8217;t. So I guess that would Make Army a power school because they won a national title or two about 200 years ago.  Notre Dame was a strong program 25 years ago.</p>
<p>Clemson has had one great year in their schools history back in like 1981 when they won their only title. They did nothing before and have done nothing since.</p>
<p>Florida State is a program that had a great 15 year run from the late 80&#8242;s to the early 2000&#8242;s. They were worthless prior to that, and have been worthless for at least 10 years.</p>
<p>Yet you think they are &#8220;great programs?&#8221; FSU can&#8217;t even afford to pay their bills, which is why tehy were looking to leave the ACC in the first place.</p>
<p>Galileo, you are just a clueless fan that probably follows Texas even though you most likely never attended Texas. There are only two schools in the B12 that can say they are better overall in football that TCU or WVU and that is Texas (which is why I am sure you probably like them) and Oklahoma. The rest are at best even with TCU and WVU, and as far succes during the BCS era goes, they are both above the rest of the conference members.</p>
<p>You are just some little guy that never gets out of your own little box you call &#8220;the world.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2012/06/27/big-12-football-a-plan-for-notre-dame-byu/comment-page-1/#comment-128244</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 14:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/?p=9642#comment-128244</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Big XII cast their expansion net east when they invited WVA.  Any other schools that ever get invited will also be from the east to give WVA a bit of a travel break.  That lets out BYU.  If BYU wanted to be in a conference they would have stayed in the Mountain West.  Notre Dame will never join a conference in football.  Why should they?  They get $1.3M every year in the current BCS system even though they never play in a BCS bowl.  They will get even more in the new system without ever being in the big bowls.  How do you beat a deal like that?  The only conferences that accept partial members are the weak ones that don&#039;t have a choice.  Does UT want the Big XII to go that way?  Because as goes UT so goes the Big XII.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Big XII cast their expansion net east when they invited WVA.  Any other schools that ever get invited will also be from the east to give WVA a bit of a travel break.  That lets out BYU.  If BYU wanted to be in a conference they would have stayed in the Mountain West.  Notre Dame will never join a conference in football.  Why should they?  They get $1.3M every year in the current BCS system even though they never play in a BCS bowl.  They will get even more in the new system without ever being in the big bowls.  How do you beat a deal like that?  The only conferences that accept partial members are the weak ones that don&#8217;t have a choice.  Does UT want the Big XII to go that way?  Because as goes UT so goes the Big XII.</p>
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		<title>By: Galileo, Houston</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2012/06/27/big-12-football-a-plan-for-notre-dame-byu/comment-page-1/#comment-128240</link>
		<dc:creator>Galileo, Houston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/?p=9642#comment-128240</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry BYU fans, but this idea doesn&#039;t excite me enough to let them in.  Hold out for FSU &amp; Clemson and of course continue courting ND.  No more marginal programs like TCU &amp; West Virginia.  BYU fits that same mold and bringing them in doesn&#039;t add value.  It just further dilutes the quality fo the league.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry BYU fans, but this idea doesn&#8217;t excite me enough to let them in.  Hold out for FSU &amp; Clemson and of course continue courting ND.  No more marginal programs like TCU &amp; West Virginia.  BYU fits that same mold and bringing them in doesn&#8217;t add value.  It just further dilutes the quality fo the league.</p>
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		<title>By: Dale Wight</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2012/06/27/big-12-football-a-plan-for-notre-dame-byu/comment-page-1/#comment-128231</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Wight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 02:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/?p=9642#comment-128231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lee on June 28, 2012 @ 6:14 am wrote that the LDS church (officially, The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints) doesn&#039;t &quot;even believe in the resurrection or that Jesus was anything other than someone on the same level as any ‘elder’.&quot;

Apparently he doesn&#039;t accept our belief in Bible teaching to the contrary, so I&#039;ll share a few excerpts from &quot;The Book of Mormon - Another Testament of Jesus Christ&quot; as authoritative statements about our beliefs about our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ:

#1
Alma 7:9 But behold, the Spirit hath said this much unto me, saying: Cry unto this people, saying—Repent ye, and prepare the way of the Lord, and walk in his paths, which are straight; for behold, the kingdom of heaven is at hand, and the Son of God cometh upon the face of the earth. 
.
#2
Alma 7:10 And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem [citing the nearest major city, Bethlehem is 6 miles away] which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God. 
.
#3
Alma 7:11 And he shall go forth, suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind; and this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will take upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people. 
.
#4
Alma 7:12 And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities. 
.
#5
Alma 7:13 Now the Spirit knoweth all things; nevertheless the Son of God suffereth according to the flesh that he might take upon him the sins of his people, that he might blot out their transgressions according to the power of his deliverance; and now behold, this is the testimony which is in me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lee on June 28, 2012 @ 6:14 am wrote that the LDS church (officially, The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints) doesn&#8217;t &#8220;even believe in the resurrection or that Jesus was anything other than someone on the same level as any ‘elder’.&#8221;</p>
<p>Apparently he doesn&#8217;t accept our belief in Bible teaching to the contrary, so I&#8217;ll share a few excerpts from &#8220;The Book of Mormon &#8211; Another Testament of Jesus Christ&#8221; as authoritative statements about our beliefs about our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ:</p>
<p>#1<br />
Alma 7:9 But behold, the Spirit hath said this much unto me, saying: Cry unto this people, saying—Repent ye, and prepare the way of the Lord, and walk in his paths, which are straight; for behold, the kingdom of heaven is at hand, and the Son of God cometh upon the face of the earth.<br />
.<br />
#2<br />
Alma 7:10 And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem [citing the nearest major city, Bethlehem is 6 miles away] which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.<br />
.<br />
#3<br />
Alma 7:11 And he shall go forth, suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind; and this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will take upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people.<br />
.<br />
#4<br />
Alma 7:12 And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.<br />
.<br />
#5<br />
Alma 7:13 Now the Spirit knoweth all things; nevertheless the Son of God suffereth according to the flesh that he might take upon him the sins of his people, that he might blot out their transgressions according to the power of his deliverance; and now behold, this is the testimony which is in me.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Peterson</title>
		<link>http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2012/06/27/big-12-football-a-plan-for-notre-dame-byu/comment-page-1/#comment-128222</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Peterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 19:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/?p=9642#comment-128222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I really like this idea.  I think it is a win-win.  However, BYU is very happy with their WCC affiliation in their non-football sports and so they would be just as fine and maybe even more happy staying in the WCC and just entering into this football relationship.  Their WCC affiliation has orked very well, has good competition, a great travel schedule and wonderful weather in the winter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really like this idea.  I think it is a win-win.  However, BYU is very happy with their WCC affiliation in their non-football sports and so they would be just as fine and maybe even more happy staying in the WCC and just entering into this football relationship.  Their WCC affiliation has orked very well, has good competition, a great travel schedule and wonderful weather in the winter.</p>
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