Big 12 expansion: Answering questions after DeLoss Dodds speaks
Texas athletic director DeLoss Dodds spoke at the Lufkin, Texas, chamber of commerce meeting last Friday and talked a little about conference realignment.
Dodds actually said a lot of interesting stuff. You can read the story here. Here’s the part about Big 12 expansion: “Dodds also mentioned that future Big 12 expansion could target Louisville and Brigham Young University. Dodds said that his personal choice would be Notre Dame, and that he is working hard to garner that addition.”
Like I said, interesting. I got an email from a Brigham Young graduate – who lives in Michigan, of all places – who asked a series of excellent questions. I thought I would try to answer them.
Are talks starting back up in earnest between BYU and the Big 12, or is this just idle banter by Dodds?
My guess is idle banter. I don’t sense much momentum for BYU. I think the addition of West Virginia makes the Big 12 much more likely to look East than West.
If talks are heating up, is there a feeling towards how serious the Big 12 and BYU are feeling, respectively, about each other?
The question of BYU’s seriousness is interesting. I was a big proponent of BYU last summer, but then I heard from all kinds of BYU people about how pleased the Cougars are with independence and how they wouldn’t join the Big 12 unless the terms were just right. I think that makes BYU a longshot. I think the Big 12 enjoyed the jubilation we saw in Fort Worth and Morgantown over TCU and West Virginia joining the conference. I don’t think the Big 12 wants someone who is lukewarm about the conference.
Will a new commissioner make much of a difference in expansion plans or are the schools going to take the lead on that decision?
Schools. The Big 12 – and the Big Eight before it – always has been a weak-commissioner conference. I don’t mean they’ve hired weak men, I mean the office is weak. In the Big Ten and the SEC and now the Pac-12, the commissioners rule with a great deal of power. That’s not been the case in the Big 12 or the Big Eight for at least 30 years and maybe before that. So I don’t think a new commissioner will have a huge impact on expansion decisions. Rather than hiring a commissioner to tell the Big 12 what to do, I think it’s more likely the Big 12 tells prospective candidates what it wants, then hires someone who expresses the ability to get the job done.
What is the timing on a new Big XII media deal?
The Big 12 last summer forged the 13-year deal with Fox Sports that will pay about $90 million a year. The Big 12′s contract with ABC/ESPN for over-air telecasts goes into summer 2016 and pays about $65 million a year. But that could be renegotiated before 2016.
Are the networks pushing for 12 (or more) teams and a conference championship?
Great question on the networks. I don’t know. But my guess is that the networks are focused not so much on how many, but who? I know that the networks were the champions of West Virginia’s addition. West Virginia brought an excellent profile to Big 12 football telecasts. So anyone of that stature would be enticing to the networks. Someone like BYU, probably yes. Someone like Louisville, probably no.
Are Oklahoma and Texas (or other schools) fighting that push for 12 and a conference title game?
Somewhat. Texas, for example, does not want a title game. And the Longhorns aren’t the only ones. OU, I would say, is either way on the title game but is more gung-ho about expansion. OSU, probably in the same boat. I think the Old North Three (KU, K-State, Iowa State) would like to get back to the 12-team format, since their teams would have a better shot at a Big 12 championship under that scenario.
Is media pressure the only way the Big XII goes to 12 (or more) teams?
No. Heck no. I mean, Texas is probably the school least excited about expansion, but as Dodds himself said, there are potential targets out there.
Does Dodds think there realistically is a chance to pry away Notre Dame from the Big East now that the Big East seems to be on the ropes a bit or at least seems to be watering down their non-football sports a bit?
Sounds like it. But people at OU are pessimistic that Notre Dame would do something. I think Notre Dame as a full-fledged member has no chance. Notre Dame as an auxiliary member, fully functional in all sports except football, with a scheduling agreement for football? Maybe that would have a chance if the Big East continues to flounder. Notre Dame’s teams need a place that makes a little sense. But I wouldn’t hold your breath.
Would Notre Dame to the Big 12 kill BYU’s shot?
Wouldn’t help. Wouldn’t help at all. If somehow Notre Dame came aboard, and the Big 12 added another school, I would think the eastward trend would hold. If you’ve got Notre Dame and Louisville and West Virginia, then all of a sudden the disconnect with Middle America isn’t so severe.
If BYU were to go to the Big 12, would there be times that BYU fans would be unable to view the games (or have to purchase a premium regional sports pack)? If so how often?
No. Every football game would be available on one of the Big 12 networks (ABC, ESPN, Fox, etc.) or would be free for BYU to telecast however it sees fit, which I assume would be BYUTV. In basketball, same way.
Is BYUTV (or BYU’s ESPN deal for that matter) problematic because it looks a lot like the Longhorn Network?
BYUTV is no problem at all. In fact, that probably would help the transition, because the Big 12 has a school with something similar. But the BYU/ESPN deal would have to go the way of the wind for the Cougars to be admitted to the conference. The Big 12 would not accept BYU’s ESPN deal. BYU’s games would be served up via the Big 12 contracts, unless it’s one of the rumdum games that the networks don’t want. BYU could keep one (or conceivably two) game for itself to distribute, but it would have to be an undesirable game to the networks.
Would BYU’s uniqueness/idiosyncrasies make for a difficult relationship in the Big 12 long term?
Sounds like it to me. People in the Mountain West have horror stories about dealing with BYU.
-------------Berry Tramel can be heard Monday through Friday from 4:40-5:20 p.m. on The Sports Animal radio network, including AM-640 and FM-98.1. You can e-mail him here and follow him on Twitter @BerryTramel. Visit Berry's website here.
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Comments
Independence is far, far better than what BYU had in the Mtn West. That said, almost all BYU fans that I know would love to go to the Big 12. I like independence in football and WCC basketball. If nothing changes, I’ll still be a big fan.
Berry,
Make no mistake about it, if BYU in any way shape or form got into the big12 there would be celebrations for weeks and weeks in the streets of Utah. 95% of the fans desperately want to be a part of the big12… its the administration/church officials that have a more mellow view of it.
BYU fans aren’t “lukewarm’ about joining the Big 12. If they were invited last year, there would be partying as only BYU fans can party (punch and cookies for everyone).
Hope it happens.
I agree with the other posts, almost every BYU fan I know would be jubilant to join the Big 12. As for the horror stories of MWC partners . . . there is no doubt that the have-nots in the MWC disliked BYU. They hated that BYU dictated so much about the conference that they would vote together every time against BYU regardless of the issue. Bigger schools that didn’t have the “little brother” syndrome (Utah and TCU) often found themselves aligned with BYU on key issues, primarily the terrible TV distribution. BYU was always the centerpiece that made the conference attractive, so it made sense in that setting they should be calling the shots. Though unique in their requirements, I don’t think BYU would try to run rough-shod over BIG 12 members because they would not be the only attraction in the conference. Give them a no-Sunday play, the ability to air games if the networks choose not to, and the right to replay games on BYUTV and I think BYU is an easy partner to work with.
BYU was no more a problem in the MWC than Texas is in the Big 12…..oops…..probably a little too close to the bone on that one.
MWC schools didn’t like BYU because they tried to set the agenda for the conference along with Utah. If they had taken some serious steps when they had the chance they could have retained Utah, TCU and brought in Boise State. Instead the likes of New Mexico, Wyoming, Colorado State, San Diego State and UNLV formed a block of schools that didn’t allow for any forward thinking to take place. The MWC is now in total turmoil……worked out well for them didn’t it?
MWC having horror stories dealing with BYU? If it wasn’t for BYU & and as of late, Utah and TCU – the MWC would be just another WAC. Oh wait, now each of them have left and the Boise exit on the horizon – it is just another WAC.
Although I’m a fan of independence I like BYU to the Big 12. Last November was horrible. If BYU does stay independent I would love to see a scheduling partnership with the Big 12 and the PAC 12. BYU plays 2-3 teams a year from each conferance with at least 1 of those games reserved for November.
I’ll agree with most posters here. I like Indy but would be all over the Big 12 if we got the invite. Just thinking about that conference in football AND basketball makes me giddy. I would love to welcome Big 12 schools to the Marriott Center and Lavell Edwards Stadium.
As far as the MWC schools hating on BYU: In their time in the MWC BYU won almost as many conference championships as all the other schools combined. Enough said.
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I would love to see BYU in the Big12. My only reservation with joining a conference was a TV contract that limited access to games. BYU was burned by the MWC’s TV contract and none of us want to enter that scenario again.
Trust me, BYU fans would rather join the Big12 than any other conference!!!
What can we do to open this door up again?
People in the Mountain West have horror stories about dealing with BYU…and BYU has horror stories about trying to deal with the MWC and it tv deals
I think ESPN drives much more of the conference alignments than many of us think. I believe ESPN really likes having the Cougars independent with a flexible schedule that they can use when they want to create a game for a slot they need to fill. BYU always draws well on TV, no matter who they’re playing. If ESPN wants something to happen it will, if it doesn’t, it won’t.
As long as the top basketball schools in country will only play a home-and-home with BYU at Energy Solutions and not the Marriott Center, I vote Big 12 over Indy/WCC.
This is going to turn into crap November football and only Gonzaga/St Mary’s playing at the Marriott. The Big 12 TV deal would never be close to the HORRIBLE deal the mtn. turned out to be.
I agree with much of what has been said. And, I too would love to be a part of the Big 12.
The only part of the article off based and disingenuous was about “…people have horror stories about dealing with BYU”. Well duh.
When you break your promises and business agreements; When you change your mind every other year on key issues and make promises verbally, but won’t put it in writing where it’s enforceable; Then, Yes, Of Course, you are going to have rough dealings with BYU. They operate straight up and will live up to their promises. Over Half the schools in the MWC found that a foreign concept. Oh yea, almost forgot. BYU has won just a hair over 60% of ALL conference championships in 12 years. Divided amongst 9 schools, that doesn’t sit so well with the other 8. MWC: A conference of poor losers.
Interesting no mention of the “rumor”
of the Big 12 raiding the ACC.
Supposedly, Terry Don Phillips,
former OSU AD & current Clemson AD
have formed a task force to look
into future conference opportunities & options.
Both Fl St & Clemson have been rejected by SEC
(SEC commish says they won’t expand in a state they are already in)
Both Fl St & Clemson are tired of
being controlled by the tobacco road contingent.
They want to be in a f-ball led conference
& are tired of being the torch leader in f-ball in the ACC
NBC/Comcast is the “Mojo” behind these discussions
because NBC/Comcast want more sports programing
& college f-ball is 2nd in TV ratings behind the NFL
& of course, they already have Notre Dame contracted
hence the “Notre Dame is still on the table” quote by DeLodds
Now that WVU has “settled” its departure w/ the Big Least,
is Louisville the next domino to fall?
Also remember,
the Big 12 has the naming rights to the Big 14 & Big 16
BYU fan in Austin, TX here. I would love to see BYU in the Big 12. Independence is a step up from the Mountain West, but a far cry from the Big 12.
How about adding both BYU and Norte Dame, or if Norte Dame won’t come. Add Boise State and BYU.
Maybe I need to go pay a visit to Dodds and talk some sense into him. He seems to be holding all the keys to this thing. If he says BYU is the number one choice, then it would end up being that way.
It seems that the larger conferences are becoming leary of scheduling tough “non BCS” games. They have too much to lose and little to gain.
Although BYU’s schedule is good 2012 and is looking awesome in 2013, I fear that the big conferences will no longer play the home and away series. The PAC 10 was good with it in the past (and TX, Georgia Tech are scheduled now), but will it last? The PAC/B1G deal appears to be shutting that door (and the SEC and B1G will never do it). Too much money for a BCS bowl opportunity.
Independence is better than the MTN-USA, but the Big 12 would be even better.
I would really like to see BYU openly express the desire to do all it can to join the BIG 12. We need to let it be known is no uncertain terms that BYU wants to join the conference and will do its part to make it happen.
Byu needs to join the real world. they are not special.
How would the the populace of provo take to a few thousand fans from texas, oklahoma, or west virginia coming into there town and tailgating with copious amounts of alcohol bought at over priced state stores and partying like there is no tomorrow. My lord the church elders would have a absolute fit. Until the church decides to try and live with the rest of the world and not jam there beliefs down the rest of our throats byu can stay independant and irrelevant.
“The only part of the article off based and disingenuous was about “…people have horror stories about dealing with BYU”. Well duh.”
It takes two to tango. Anyone who thinks their side is on the side of the angels and the other is the spawn of Satan is naive. Sounds like BYU was the UT of the MWC. If they think there’s room for two cowboy hats in the Big 12, I would think BYU had best stay independent. UT almost crashed the conference, just like BYU did the MWC. There’s not enough room in the Big 12 for one big hat anymore, let alone two.
I am 100% opposed to the Big 12 adding Notre Dame for sports other than football. Either join for football or don’t join at all. What on earth has Notre Dame done to bolster the stability of the Big East. They add nothing if they don’t join for football as well and would just make the Big 12 weaker.
Simple way to get bot ND and BYU:
A. Add Louisville and Cincinnati in all sports. Add ND and BYU in Olympic sports. UL and UC bridge the gap to WVU, bring competitive BB and FB squads and pretty good recruiting and markets. ND and BYU each play 6 Big 12 schools a year in exchange for acces to Big 12 bowl ties. ND would be in the North, BYU would be in the South in Olympic sports. When they decide to join a conference in FB, the Big 12 would be the first choice.
(eventually, if the league wanted to expand to 16, Navy and AF could bring their national brands to the North and South, respectively, as permanent rivals)
OR
B. Add Louisville in all Sports. Add ND in Olympic Sports. Add BYU for FB only. The only problem is that the North would expand from Morgantown to Provo, which is not good.
I personally liked the article. It was informing from a Big 12 stand point.
To be honest, the MWC was bigoted from the beginning. The MWC was always a conference for the “little guys”. That’s why the MTN was created: so that ALL MWC teams could be broadcast equally, an idea that ESPN wanted nothing to do with. When “Big Boy” BYU left, of course everyone bad mouthed them. No other school could in the MWC could make independence work in a lucrative manner and they were jealous and bitter.
And to Ross Graham, I am sorry you feel that way. While BYU is a church owned school with many odd rules to nonmembers of that church, it isn’t run that closely by the church leaders. They are in charge of major decisions, but football games aren’t monitored THAT close by the “Elders”. I welcome fans from UT, OU, WV, and the rest of the BIg 12. If you choose to drink and party, that’s fine. I think you’ll find a warmer reception than you might expect.
Forget BYU. No university that maintains prejudicial and discriminatory policies should be allowed in the Big12. This isn’t an ignorant rant. Read BYU’s webpage. The Big12 shouldn’t even think about BYU.
I have to chuckle when I hear that “95% of BYU fans prefer the big 12 over independence.” I think a slight majority (60-70%) prefer it over independence depending on the arrangement. As BYU learned from the MWC, the devil is in the details and they got hosed by the MWC TV deal. I would think those in the BIG 12 would understand that. If BYU didn’t have to compete on Sundays and games were accessable, the BIG 12 makes a lot of sense for BYU and I think BYU would be a great partner to work with. It would be so much fun to watch BYU basketball in the BIG 12.
To gftc32 .
Open ? Yet a campus that does not allow snow balls or sled riding and it would allow a good old fashion tailgate. Been to provo. Been removed from campus for sled riding. Been removed for throwing a snow ball. The gestapo in provo is ruthless and the most non conforming and understanding church elder.following grood ive ever ment its ridiculous. In the late 80s when the wall came down they forgot to inform the LDS of the fact. On warm receptions from the church I lived out there for many many years. I think myself a very friendly outgoing person accepting and understanding. And yet living out ther I had neighbors who would not talk to me cause I was not a member of the ward. I and my wife where not invited to community gatherings again non LDS. We were shunned and made to felt not welcome. I helped 75% of my neifhbors move in . Never pressed my beliefs or bad habits upon them yet was treated like a lepper. I think after so many years living within the populace that they will mot be as accepting as you like to think. On that not for those outside the state and old enough to remember the movie footloose it was filmed just outside of byu campus less.then twenty miles. If possible they probanly would try to out law dancing.
I believe that Holmoe and Samuelson could have landed BYU in the Big 12 last fall had they knew what they were doing… I sense that there is a little bit of Panic going on right now in Provo and at Church HQ in SLC as the writing on the wall is becoming quite clear… Once the BCS Conferences fill up scheduling is going to be a real Bear…. No one will want to play BYU except Big Sky and Wac teams and I think that fans have had their fill of that after just one season… BYU really NEEDS to land an invitation to the Big 12 by any means necessary short of Sunday Play…. Period and end of story…. To not compromise on such things as easy Financial Reporting and information sharing with the conference, or on TV rights, would simply be ridiculous…
If BYU does get a shot at the Big 12 I am confident that all parties involved will be happy with the results and I suspect that League Revenue will have a serious jump Northwards.
For every Ross Graham-like complainer you’ll find 10 more non-Mormons living in Utah who love it and don’t feel shunned or marginalized. I was one of them and it’s all about the attitude you bring with you. If you carry a chip on your shoulder about being in the minority, it’s pretty obvious you don’t want to get to know others different from you from the verbal and non-verbal vibes you give off to other people — no matter where you live. I grew up in Big Ten country in the shadow of the Michigan/Ohio State rivalry and the BYU/Utah rivalry was just as intense, if not more so. Unfortunately, like the former Oklahoma/Nebraska rivalry or gormer Texas/Arkansas might be a better example –changing conference affiliations virtually kills the rivalry within a few years. I’ve been to college football and basketball games all over the country and can say with confidence my experiences as a non Mormon at the BYU venues were on par with the best I’ve had anywhere. Sure they don’t serve alcohol at their games and some of their fans are pretty obnoxious, but what school doesn’t have fans like that? If I want to drink, I’ll hit my sports bar and watch several games. I think BYU and the Pac12 made a lot more sense geographically and keeping that conference’s rivalry structure intact (utah and Colo are mowhere close to being rivsls in anything other than skiing) but they’d be a great addition to the Big 12. But hey, I’m a Northwestern fan trapped in California, so what do I know.
I think its funny about the so called “horror stories” of working with BYU. BYU was a big fish in a small pond. BYU (along with utah/maybe TCU) was brining in all the money, yet the wyomings of the world were wanting equal pay. It is very similar to what texas has dealt witih in big 12. They ARE the big fish. BYU is a small fish in the big 12. They don’t want to make waves. But they wont be pushed over either, (like TCU) Nobody should be scared of BYU. (maybe in basketball) but Texas,Oklahoma,TCU. These guys are going to walk all over BYU year in and year out. they will be fighting with kansas and oklahoma state and kansas state, to see who has the best 10th year in the league.
Independence is a dud. There’s nothing to play for and all the excitement of competition in November is GONE. BYU ought to do everything possible to get into the BIG 12 before their relevance on the national stage disappears. The big move to independence was precipitated by a need to do “something” in light of Utah’s surprise move to the PAC 12. If BYU had been invited to the BIG 12 at that time, they would have jumped at the chance. Don’t let the short term ESPN contract destroy BYU’s chance to move forward into the future world of the super conferences.
I would rather have 1 or 2 ESPN games, like Texas, Oklahoma, etc, while being in the Big 12 and watch the rest of the games on BYUTV, then to be on ESPN every week, as an Independent, playing teams like San Jose State, Idaho, Idaho State, New Mexico State, Utah State, and the rest of the teams ranked in the bottom 100 or lower.
Will–thanks for the level-headed review. I agree with you.
I’ve lived all over the world and found that there are good and bad things about every place, and for those who can’t see the good–you may want to look inside yourself to find out why.
Again, I want to see BYU in the Big 12!
[...] is valid about BYU, and his thoughts on the consideration of BYU and Big 12 expansion can be read here. The Cougars were deliberate in their departure from the Mountain West and, should they choose to [...]
I’ve read the comments rating Louisville and West Virgina as “BIG” draws and little ole BYU as being between Moscow and Odessa, Russia with tiny facilities. Let’s put the truth squad into action. If BYU were added they would be #1 in Big-12 basketball attendance playing 23,000 seat Marriott Center. Football would be 3rd, with 64,000 fans filling LeVall Edwards stadium, one of the most beautiful settings in college football. TCU will have a greatly improved facility with over 40,000, but basketball in a small 6,000 tp 8,000 seat arena? BYU brings more fans to the BYU-TCU games than TCU. BYU has 5 straight NCAA tourney invites, and 5 straight 25 win seasons, TCU 0. How many TV sets with AFA, TCU, Houston, add? BYU owns the #33 Salt Lake City market and has 5 of
the top 10 ESPN ratings. BYU was said by ESPN and the Missisipli Clarion newspaper to have purchase 15,000 tickets to the ole Miss game and 12,000 to Texas. Provo, UT (metro area) created the most jobs in the country so far in 2011, located 335 air miles from Denver, not exactly on the dark side of the moon. Come to a Nov or Dec football game, stay and ski in Park City or Deer Valley, not a bad trip. Academics aren’t anything to sneeze at, US News Best Universites (some ties) BYU-71, KSU-143, TTU-160, Texas-45, Missou-90, Iowa St-97, Kansas-101, Okla-101, OSU-132, Baylor-75. Louisville was mentioned as was West Virginia who was then invited, two great universities, Stadium seats 56,000 WVU, 46,000 UL, TV markets smaller, limited. Memphis someone mentioned plays in a 60,000 before “crowds” of around 20,000 and that’s pushing it claims the Memphis Commecial Appeal sports editor. And you have that nasty NCAA violations thing going on once in a while. BYU graduates 100% of it’s B-ballers and 93.7% of it’s F-ballers. Only Penn St and BYU own a national championship without ANY major or minor violations. Of 300 available Moubtain West championships they won 143 about half, in the leagues 10 year history. The minor sports such as track and volleyball, women’s soccer do well, in 2009 the woman’s softball played in a super regional in Austin winning 3 straight over Texas to move onto the championships. Jimmer loves the place so it an’t all be bad.
I’m a Texas fan and alumni living in Austin Texas. I work with an avid BYU fan. Who is this JIMMER he keeps talking about, anyway? – I think we (Big 12) SHOULD invite BYU to the Big 12. With A&M gone, and TCU turning into criminals, why not? Plus BYU and TCU have a rivalry and love-hate relationship. Would love to see that continue. Do it! DO IT!
Yes. Kash above is correct. I AM a huge BYU living in Austin Texas, home of the 1991 Heisman Trophy winner, Ty Detmer. . . and WOULD love BYU to be in the Big 12. Do it! DO IT! JIMMMMMMMERRRR! – Hey Kash, you going to work tomorrow?
I enjoyed reading everyone’s comments, as for me, I prefer BYU in a conference where I can follow their standing and as for the MWC I felt their basketball teams could compete anyplace. As for football it was starting to become one of toughest in the nation before everyone deserted it. Now I hope they can find a good conference where it will be fun to follow each team, and yes, like each of you the big 12 is my choice.
Great article. I haven’t talked to any BYU fans who wouldn’t be thrilled to be in the Big 12. Everything I’ve heard from players and from Coach Mendenhall is exactly the same–they would be thrilled and honored to join the Big 12. The fact that BYU had teams from 9 different sports in the top 25 last year, would make BYU and the Big 12 a great fit.
Interesting read. The link to the story about Deloss Dodds talk at the lufkin chamber doesn’t work.