Berry Berry Berry, The statement from the ND AD that you begin your post with, was said to Kirk Bohls. What else is the AD of ND gonna say ? You know better than that. The ND AD gave the company line.

Next, if this super conference ball gets rolling, ND will be forced into a conference. And the Big 12 has one large card to play to get ND’s attention, and that is they can have their own network, just like UT. And if ESPN will pay UT 300 million, what you think they gonna pay Notre Dame.

Good grief that will be a lot of money.

ND can not get that deal with the Big 10, nor the PAC 12.

And once the first domino is tipped on realignment that leads to the super conferences, it will fall fast. If ND wants to negotiate what’s best for them as conf member, they best do it now , while they have cards to play. If they wait too long , they will have no options.

The Big East for football is even more unstable than the Big 12.

And the minute ND joins the Big 12, the Big 12 then has instant stability and credibility. BYU follows ND , along with Pitt.

And BYU will not go to an unstable Big 12, they will wait to see what ND does.

Just because the ND AD told Kirk Bohls that they are happy as an independent, is pretty much meaningless.

I would guess that the ND AD has his eye closely on what the SEC will do after they accept A&M. That may very well be the first domino, that starts the whole thing going, and the rest will fall fast … or get left out.

I left out another incentive for ND to join the Big 12, is they can prevent the formation of the super conferences by saving the Big 12.

Last summer, when all this began, there were ” forces ” in college football who stepped up to save the Big 12. These ” forces ” were trying to stave off the super conference formation. Both ESPN and Fox overpaid for the Big 12, because they do not want to see the super conferences form. Notre Dame does not want to see that also, because that kills the BCS and forces them into a conference.

So ND’s best course is to maintain the status quo, or as close to the status quo as they possibly attain. And the Big 12 provides them with an avenue to do that.

What would BYU have lost? Among other things:
(1) If they told the WCC to “stick it” this year, where do they place their sports other than football when the Big 12 dies? Can anyone think of a real location? The WCC was VERY accomodating to BYU. This is the same (and only) reason Texas would have trouble going Indy right now – what do you do with the other sports?
(2) BYU has a VERY good (exclusive) deal with ESPN. At least 10 BYU games are on ESPN this season. If BYU breaks that deal to go to the Big 12 and it dies in 2 years – ESPN isn’t going to throw themselves at BYU again.
(3) BYU has their own HD Network available in 60 million homes and growing (Dish, Direct TV, and cable basic tiers) and also a worldwide network in all of South America and many other nations. They place all their other Olympic sports on this all the time. I am watching it right now via the free App on my phone.

Basically BYU has all the same reasons Notre Dame has (and in some scenarios more) to NOT join the Big 12.

I don’t think they will

Berry, Good article. I’m from South Bend Indiana originally and I can tell you all that Notre Dame has no need to worry about coming into the Big XII. They have options that make much more sense for them when realignment starts to happen. It appears likely that when the superconferences start forming up, the Big XII will be one of the “old” conferences that will fade away as some of its remaining members are invited to move into the more stable power conferences (unless like Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M they get out now for their future security). I’m sorry, but Texas has just about destroyed any interest that “A” list schools would have in wanting to come into the Big XII. What is confounding to me is how Texas in their arrogance would keep pushing members to the point of their wanting to leave and blow up what should be one of those stable power conferences. Oh well, you can’t fix stupid as Ron White says……

I would call the MWC dysfuctional. The teams that left did so because they had an opportunity to get into BCS-qualifying leagues (Utah, TCU) or independent when there looked to be not much left (BYU). The conference did a good job of bringing in quality replacements and crippling their neighboring competitor. Th edefections were caused only by the league’s lack of BCS automatic-qualifying status and not by any internal dysfunction like what is happening in the Big 12.

I meant NOT call MWC dysfunctional, sorry.

You wrote, “But Arkansas and Notre Dame would have lost much. The Hogs, a spot in the premier football conference in America. Notre Dame, its identity”. Are you serious? Arkansas ALREADY has a spot in the most premier (and stable) football conference in America. They have no intention of ever leaving!

Ken B , what are those options ND has ?

Join the Big Ten under Delany’s terms ?

They not going PAC 12, and dang sure not goin SEC ?

The Big East is history, they will merge with the ACC, or what is left of the ACC after the SEC takes what they want.

Will that be a football conference worthy of ND ?

I don’t know about all these options ND has , their best move is to be proactive, and negotiate their way into a conference now, rather than wait and take the terms offered.

I would be stunned if ND was still and independent five years from now.

Or one other path for ND, would be to leverage an offer from the Big 12, to get network concessions from Delany and the Big 10.

But how many times has ND turned down the Big 10 ?

Would they not be meeting with Delany with their hat in hand ?

Absolutely zero chatter on ND message boards about joining the Big 12, do you know why? Because there is less than a zero percent chance they will join a soon to be defunct and increasingly irrelevent Big 12. Through their current agreements with NBC, Adidas, etc ND basically prints money. Why rock that boat to jump on a sinking ship? You guys might know the Big 12 but anyone suggesting ND would benefit from Big 12 membership doesn’t know the first thing about ND. Texas is much more likely to go independent than ND is to join a conference. For proof just look at ND’s 2012 schedule and think about how much the Longhorn network would benefit from a national schedule like ND’s.

UT is not going independent. They have no place for their Olympic sports.

ND’s NBC contract is nothing, compared to what they could make from their own network on top of conference TV money.

Do you really believe the Big 10 would allow ND to join and have their own network and TV deal ? I don’t.

Lynn1, Notre Dame does have to be watchful as all this plays out and from what I hear from family and friends up there..they are watching very intently. Their A.D. Swarbrick is widely respected and is savvy, he has made it clear that likely the days of being an independent in football is drawing to a close. The Big Ten and Notre Dame have remained cordial to each other in spite of Notre dame declining them previously. They have not burned bridges there, it has simply been expressed that the timing has not been right as yet to have to make that move into a conference. Neither Notre Dame or the Big Ten has felt a need to be desperate on the issue and can wait.They have several rivalries there in the Midwest that have played for decades they all want to continue and when the superconference scenarios begin they will slide right into a slot that is likely already waiting for them in that region of the country. This may sound corny, but there is more of a friendly family like attitude up there between institutions. That is why Texas astounds me with their devil may care attitude towards others. Having said all that….No disrespect intended…I really enjoy the Big XII in football, but sadly all this dysfunction and unrest makes it unattractive to “A” list schools at least right now. It is truly remarkable that they are imploding from within on themselves.

Berry, is there anyway you can come to provo and knock some sense into BYU administration. If they are even half considering staying indie, they are insane. You are right, they have nothing to lose… nothing. WCC is a small little conference where 7 of the 8 teams play bball in highschool size gyms, that is not what BYU wants to be aligned to long term. BYU has been waiting for an invite to a bigtime conference for 70 years, and now that it is finally here, there is a chance they will say no? Regardless if it is unstable, even if every school left and just oklahoma, or texas wanted to be a conference with BYU, it would still be worth it to align with one of those amazing schools. BYU could take all their teams to the WAC if it fell through in a few years. And if it falls through, that is implying that many teams will be without a home. So BYU just joins with those without a home… still 20 times better than indie, and if its not… they just go indie again

It’s nice dialogue to try and talk to Notre Dame and Arkansas, but they aren’t going to bite. Why would Arkansas leave when they’re getting another former SWC opponent in the SEC? And I continue to laugh at the interest SMU expresses in joining the Big 12, particularly since David Ubben over at ESPN recently wrote that” just barely starting to crawl out of the smoldering crater that was the NCAA death penalty in 1987-1988 is going to get them anywhere.”

As for BYU there are clearly now obvious signs the Big 12 has contacted administration officials in Provo about transitioning from football independence and other sports to Big 12 play. What is now gaining traction is planning an appropriate exit strategy from the WCC since this is happening a year or two sooner than the earliest time frame BYU AD Tom Holmoe or President Cecil Samuelson anticipated it could last year. I can see BYU starting Big 12 play as early as 2012 in football since Holmoe has only signed a slate of opponents that can be reshuffled, rescheduled or offered different terms at minimal or no cost to BYU. Basketball might wait until 2013-2014 with a large number of Big 12 opponents for November-December of 2012. Keep in mind Tom Holmoe and his boss had to do some serious talking to as well as open the checkbook to keep head basketball coach Dave Rose from taking the open job at Oklahoma last spring.

I think BYU did the right thing in divorcing the MWC a year early since it would be much more costly (I’ve heard in the neighborhood of $4-5 million) to do it now. The WCC was VERY good to BYU to take them on as a refugee in this situation, but they signed on with BYU knowing this could happen easily in 3-5 years, if not sooner….no pun intended!

BYU head coach Bronco Mendenhall today on coaches phone conference:

“This move to independence was well though out. I believe we are aligned and positioned where we belong…For now, and maybe for the relative long-term, I am really, really comfortable with this independent role.”

There is a ZERO percent chance that BYU goes to the Big 12 this year. The Big 12 can take that as a “thanks but no thanks” for all the reasons outlined above and many, many more.

then let us pray that Bronco isnt the one that makes the decisions, this would be the worst decision in the history of BYU sports if they in anyway declined the invite.

Dave, where are you getting the info regarding

“What is now gaining traction is planning an appropriate exit strategy from the WCC since this is happening a year or two sooner than the earliest time frame BYU AD Tom Holmoe or President Cecil Samuelson anticipated it could last year”

I only ask because I am really hoping that what you are putting is true and that what bronco is saying is just PR stuff for the moment.

Brian, I’m afraid you just hit the nail on the head! Berry was right, the only “big name” team left out there to join us was BYU, and they are “really, really confortable with independence.” I’d now like to welcome, SMU, Houston, and maybe even Tulsa to the Big XII Conference! Better throw Rice in there too, if Missouri jumps.

How can they be comfortable with independence when they havent even played a game. What happens when they lose to texas in week 2 and all of a sudden they have nothing to play for for the rest of the year. I imagine it would get old very very very quickly. Also, Notre Dame has way more options as an indie, they have better bowl games, higher chance of BCS inclusion. If BYU goes 12-1 as an indie, or 6-6 as an indie they go to the exact same bowl game. How is this something to be comfortable with?

David,

You can’t just “go Indy” again. It was pretty complicated. It’s a business and when you do it once and then tell all of your contractual partners (WCC, ESPN, and every program you have made scheduling agreeements with) to drop dead they aren’t so willing to do business with you again. Pam had a great point above: What do you do with the non-football sports when in two years the Big 12 explodes? (and it will) The WAC?

You’re over simplification of this process is intellectually immature. The ONLY advantage to jumping to the Big 12 is BCS access which quite honestly isn’t that accesible in a conference like the Big 12.

David,

Take a breath. You’re very frantic right now. You ARE NOT smarter or wiser than the entire BYU administration and Board of Trustee’s. I promise you aren’t. They are much more informed on this topic then you or I and are in a better position to make a decision on any offer (if such a thing even exists). Just sit down and enjoy the actual football game this Saturday.

I’m not for or against BYU going to the Big 12 … BUT … Brian is correct. There would have to be a lot of consessions made by the Big 12 for BYU to be in any better position than it already is and I don’t think the Big 12 is willing to make those (despite the fact that their conference will die as a result).

Brian, you are arguing against them going, so you are doing the same thing I am, you are not smarter than BYU administration either, so what are you saying?

There are way more than just one reason to go to the big 12. There exposure (the main reason they say they went indie) the money, the chance to play in the BCS (right now if they lose once they are out) and the ability to be in the superconferences if they ever come (and they will).

Think about it, if they stay indie, they will not be one of those 64 teams. The PAC 12 wont take them. If they join the BIG 12 it at least increases their chances

TO say that an average fan is not smarter or wiser than the administration is a stupid argument. The administration can be blinded by pride, arrogance, and other politics when it may seem so clear on the outside.

Look at TA&M as the example. Their decision to wait a year to join the SEC is going to cost them millions more in penalties. How many scholarships could Loftin have given out with those millions. Absolute stupid decision that he made last year when everyone else saw what they should have done.

BYU has trapped itself in irrelevance if it stays in the WCC.

BYU will have more exposure in the next two years than all but maybe 5 programs in the country. That is a fact. That is far from irrelevant.

David,

Your last comment posted at 12:09 pm is the most backwards, out of touch with reality comment I have ever read.

So BYU continues to play in highschool gyms with the hope that all their games arent on ESPNU?

Pam, if it is backwards and out of touch, please explain why

Pam in your initial comment, you used the following as one of the things BYU has to lose:
“(3) BYU has their own HD Network available in 60 million homes and growing (Dish, Direct TV, and cable basic tiers) and also a worldwide network in all of South America and many other nations. They place all their other Olympic sports on this all the time. I am watching it right now via the free App on my phone.”

How would they lose this? They own it, wither they are in the Big 12 or not they get to keep their own network just like the long horn network.

doesnt that seem a little out of touch of a comment from you?

David:”The administration can be blinded by pride, arrogance, and other politics,”

And you, yourself are immune to such things? Wow. I wish I could say that about myself. How very fortunate you are to be so very blessed.

Personally, I’m very grateful that the BYU administration and BOT have been around the block enough times that they are far more likely to make a cool-headed decision based on facts and due diligence, and not just jump at the first seemingly attractive offer that comes their way. Their decision will be based upon what is best for the university in the long term.

David,

As you may have noticed several Big 12 members have serious issues with the Longhorn Network. In fact you may have heard that one member is going to leave the conference this week. There were two major issues why this occured.
(1) The Longhorn Networks intent to show High School games/highlights
(2) The Longhorn Network intended to show CONFERENCE games on the network. The Big 12 voted that such games could only be shown if all Big 12 members (or a majority) approved of such a game

(1) above is not a problem for BYU or BYUtv. (2) Is a BIG loss of freedom. BYU would have to seek league approval (that may or may not be given) anytime it wanted to show a conference football or basketball game even if that game were not going to be aired on any other network. This was a BIG reason that BYU was dissatisfied with the MWC TV deal. Make no mistake the Big 12 members would likely not approve such a game. If they have issues with Texas doing it on their in-state network that no one can actually get you can bet they would have an issue with it going out to 60 million people in the US on a BYU platform.

Thank goodness BYU does not come accross as “desperate” as poor David does.

BYU is not desperate, for them it’s all about Exposure. Money is not an issue at BYU.

If the new model of conference affiliation being displayed in the Big 12, is applied to BYU, whereby BYU can keep it’s ESPN deal, have same day re-broadcast rights, no Sunday play, and obviously maintain their own Network, then BYU should listen.

But only then.

The WCC is a great fit for BYU’s non revenue Olympic sports. Perhaps BYU joins as Football only, that would be the Ideal, especially considering travel time and costs.
West coast affiliation is better suited for the non revenue sports.

What I like about the Big 12 is their apparent ability to think outside the box, this is critical for their survival.

We’ll see if Bebee dithers again, as he did last year, or gets busy, adds 3 teams and stays aggressive, as he did when investigating SMU decades ago.

BYU, Air Force, and maybe Houston or Louisville, gets the Big 12 back in the game, and maintains a contiguous footprint with 3 new markets.

See David this was one of only 10,000 similar issues that would have to be resolved. Like i said I am not against going to the Big 12. I just don’t see it happening with all the issues that would need to be taken care of to make it worth the effort for BYU

Big 12 needs a reboot. BYU, TCU, SMU, Houston, Louisiana-Lafayette, Southern Miss, Air Force. Seems like those would all be good expansion targets for a Big 14.

I almost forgot, Tulsa.

I may be crazy, but I think the NCAA enforcement train is going to go through the SEC in the next couple years, much like it did the SWC 25 years ago. The reports that the Auburn investigation isn’t finished make me think that the NCAA is being very methodical and making sure everything is verified without reproach. My point being that the SEC is a corrupt cesspool of recruiting violations, Arkansas is probably one of the cleanest of the bunch, and it is in their best interest to look at the Big XII.

Brad, You have got quite a list there….it would be thrilling wouldn’t it to see Conference USA schools join into the Big XII….oh, and please don’t leave out UTEP, I know they are way out in El Paso but they would have to want to jump in too and create a new “Southwest Conference”!

I have read MANY articles, posts and blogs about the pros and cons of BYU joining the Big-12.

And of all of them, I found the posts above by Brian and Pam the MOST informative, in that they go into detail regarding the specifics of what might hold up a deal (rather than this superficial “they can keep their network and join” line that we are hearing almost everywhere else).

For example, I had not thought about the “content of the broadcast issues” on the BYU network that would make joining the Big-12 less palatable for BYU.

I suppose this is because everyone has been trying to blame Texas A&M’s and its “envy” of the LHN, rather than point out the Aggies’ legitimate concerns about the content broadcast thereon.

Nor had I thought through the long-term effects of cancelling contracts just signed because of going independent, and then deciding that “we can simply go independent again if it doesn’t work out” line.

Considering how cautious and deliberate the BYU administration has been with nearly everything they have done in the past, these issues will be FULLY vetted.

I do not see BYU in the the Big-12 anytime soon.

BYU fans want an invitation, just so they can say “we were wanted by a BCS league.” Utah going to the Pac-12 is an unhealing sore spot with them.

Look at BYU’s November schedule in their first year of independence:
open date
Idaho
New Mexico State
open date

To say BYU wouldn’t lose anything if the Big 12 crumbled is wrong. They’d have to start independence all over again, and end up with a schedule like that.

What is wrong with high schools sized gyms in the WCC?
Duke plays in a small gym, don’t see posters complaining about that.

Big12= the most unstable conference in the country.
Ok & OkSt. need to explore other options now. Time to move on.

BYU isn’t about to drop it’s ESPN contract, it’s nation wide and world wide BYUtv audience, plus BYUtvsports and Sirius radio, drop all that sports programming, no Sunday play for a little nook in the Big 12. Forget it! If the Big 12 wants BYU, they take BYU as it is, not as the Big 12 may want BYU to become.

I highly suspect the Big 12 will be the little 12 very soon.

Texas going indie in football will happen before BYU gives up what they have. All of the Texas non revenue sports could find a happy home in the mwc.

Bob

Sure thing, Texas baseball in the MWC ??? Hahahaha, they love their baseball too much to allow that to happen.

And Texas hoops is also much bigger than the MWC.

UT is not going indy.

I can think of about a billion ($) reasons why the Big 12 will need to immediately have someone that can be embraced into their league and have some media credibility. I can’t imagine that ESPN or any other network will just let them lose TA&M and and not get a replacement with some drawing power. It may be bumpy for BYU to withdraw from the WCC after just 1 year. However, if they don’t take the invite now, when the super conference cataclysm comes they well could be left on the outside looking at everyone else. What will that do for “exposure?”

The only way BYU joins the Big 12 is as a football only program. Their no Sunday play rule would be too much for the conference to adjust to in all other sports. I can see BYU with a nice invite for football; they keep all the TV benefits and keep playing other sports with the WCC. That conference was very accomodating to BYU and I just don’t see them telling the WCC to shove it.