Big 12 football: Houston is no solution
A Texas A&M official told the Houston Chronicle that if the Aggies leave the Big 12 for the Southeastern Conference, the University of Houston would be considered as a replacement.
You’ve got to be kidding. Houston once was a Southwest Conference power. It won three of the first four SWC titles after that league admitted UH in 1976. But Houston plays in a 32,000-seat stadium. The Cougars do not have a big following, live or via television.
A Big 12 administrator told me the other day that if A&M left, TCU probably wouldn’t be a stout enough TV draw to warrant replacing the Aggies. And TCU plays in a much bigger stadium (Amon Carter’s capacity is about 47,000) and is undergoing a $115 million renovation. Plus the Frogs just won the Rose Bowl and have built a very solid program. Houston hasn’t been a big-time player on the college scene in 20 years.
So Houston is just kooky talk. If the Big 12 wants to try to survive by getting back to 10 teams, or even better 12, then it can’t look at Houston. Brigham Young is the best place to start.
The Big 12 erred last summer by not filling the vacancies. The nonsense about 10 schools being better than 12 has been proven faulty. The Big 12 appeared weak and now appears even weaker. Sticking with 10 schools proved to be a short-sighted vision. More money in the short term, but perhaps at the expense of long-term anything.
What if the Big 12 expanded back to 12 with BYU and TCU? The football would have been just as good as before. Probably better, since Colorado seems to have abandoned the sport at a high level. The TV markets would have been only marginally harmed; losing Nebraska hurt, but losing Colorado didn’t hurt much, because even though it provided the Denver market, the truth is, no one much in Denver watches the Buffs. TCU brings no appreciable new television sets, but BYU most certainly does.
So the Big 12 is reaping what it sowed. I don’t think the Big 12 will survive as a nine-team league, and I’m not sure it will survive as a 10-team league, even with a BYU replacing A&M. I’m not sure it could even talk BYU into coming, since the league is so unstable.
This much is for sure. Houston adds nothing.
-------------Berry Tramel can be heard Monday through Friday from 4:40-5:20 p.m. on The Sports Animal radio network, including AM-640 and FM-98.1. You can e-mail him here and follow him on Twitter @BerryTramel. Visit Berry's website here.
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Comments
good for Texas atm. at least they were able to stand up to Texas. sucks they’ll never have a shot at a championship though in the sec. equal revenue sharing was the only was to go to survive. way to go, texas
If you put Houston in the fans and stadium will come. Anyone who remembers the Andre Ware days knows that. Houston sports stink and u of h football may be the only winning team for the next few years
The irony here is Houston had a chance at the SEC years ago but went SWC due to the evil horn infulence.
Houston makes a lot more sense than you think.
BYU will give you another nothing in the middle of nowher school like everybody else in the Big 12.
A city boy like Houston could improve the Big 12′s podunk profile.
Agreed with everything you wrote. Father is a UH alum but I don’t see them as being a good addition. We should go for the western Big East schools and BYU. Those make the most sense.
Houston has announced it intends to raze Robertson Stadium and build a new facility seating 40 k and expandable to 50 k. It plans to spend $120 million on the stadium and $40 million more to upgrade Hofheinz Pavillion for basketball.
They’ve always been contenders when played in the premier SWC, been leaders in C-USA, and they have the resources to compete. I’d take them very seriously.
I think BYU is clearly the only choice the Big-12 has at surviving. Houston is just like Baylor, a few powerful Texas legislators trying to ram it down everyone’s throats by attching it to Texas, but a commuter school in the Big-12 will NEVER work.
Moving to Houston from Big Ten country a few years ago, I can tell you right now, the city is hungry for UH football and Reliant Stadium could be a good substitute for the “big games”. UH is growing rapidly, the city is growing extraordinarily quick, and the talent in south Texas is enough for easy recruiting. Would be a perfect fit.
As usual Berry distorts the facts. TCU’s stadium may seat 47,000 but they can’t fill it..not even last year which was their best season in 50 years. If the Big XII is going to survive we need a team in the Houston market. We can play them in Reliant and play basketball at Toyota Center. There was a time not too many years ago when U of H used to sellout the astrodome. BYU is a good choice too but they refuse to play on Sunday and the distance is a concern.
BYU packs their 65k seat stadium, near top 25 in attendance year in and year out.
They have a Heisman winner, Outlands, Doak Walker, Davey Obrien’s, Sammy Baugh’s etc. No, they are not Oklahoma or Texas, but they’re more storied than most other Big 12 schools at this point.
The Marriott center is the 4th largest on campus arena in America. BYU ranked 5th Nationally in basketball attendance last year.
They have a National Brand and following, they’re not Notre Dame of course, but who is?
Notre Dame light? You betcha.
They had 9 Top 25 programs last year.
If BYU can keep it’s TV deal with ESPN, and keep their own Network BYU-TV, with replay freedom, and if the league can work around no Sunday play for BYU, then they will come.
Those are big concessions, I know, but if the Big 12 wants to survive, they need to think outside the box. Dump the Socialistic Pac 12 Conference Model and give schools their freedom to grow. Let Oklahoma start their own network as well, or any other school.
The Big 12 needs to act or wait and be acted upon.
You snooze you lose. Bebee snoozed last summer. Has he learned his lesson?
BYU, Air Force and Houston/Louisville, and the Big 12 is back in business.
dude are you insane. byu is independent, tcu is in the big east now, they’re not gonna join a washed up big 12. houston beats every big 12 competitor it plays, home or road (osu and texas tech are the only 2 that have the guts to play houston). personally i hope houston gets an invite to the big east because im pretty sure big 12 is about to seriously fall apart
University of Houston is on the wake of building a state of the art stadium that will blow away OU and maybe OSU’s stadium. Also with basketball too. The whole campus is getting a makeover actually so do your research before you write a blog.
There are pros and cons to UH and facilities as you mention is a con, but, calling it “kooky” talk is an ignorant statement.
First, nothing succeeds like success. U of H has a huge Alumni and Houston is as big a bandwagon jumping city as there is.
Second, there are 5 players from the Houston area now playing at A&M that wouldn’t if U of H was in a BCS conference…probably 2 or 3 at UT…they’re already recruiting Houston fairly well…U of H has more football talent potential (and basketball) than any schools currently in the Big 12 other than Texas and OU.
Third, U of H used to play at the Astrodome, if they’d pony up for their own turf which would not seem to be that prohibitive, I don’t know why Reliant wouldn’t turn a back flip to get big U of H games.
Fourth, U of H is now on par with UT and A&M academically since it became the 3rd Texas university to achieve Tier 1 status. U of H has incredible upside potential in all facets of a University.
adding TCU/UH would be horrible. only Notre Dame and BYU can save what’s left of the the bigxii. OU needs to go to the pac12/16 and keep the red river shootout. that will be the best formula to keep and expand recruiting for the football program. joining the SEC would make recruiting more difficult due to “expanded” competition for the Texas kids. adding more TX schools would make it more difficult as well. OU please don’t stuck in the SWC part deux.
“The Big 12 erred last summer by not filling the vacancies. The nonsense about 10 schools being better than 12 has been proven faulty. The Big 12 appeared weak and now appears even weaker. Sticking with 10 schools proved to be a short-sighted vision. More money in the short term, but perhaps at the expense of long-term anything.”
Berry, surely you could see this last summer. If I could see it–and I could–then surely you could see it.
It is now obvious that the Big 12 danced to Texas’ tune from the very start. The end result of Texas’ machinations was Nebraska’s departure to the exceedingly green pastures of the Big Ten. So Texas’ desire to rule the roost destroyed the original Big 12, and now Texas’ desire to capture every last dollar–to hell with the impact on its conference “partners”–is destroying the Big 12-2.
If A&M departs, the Big 12-2 is doomed. OU needs to unhitch the Schooner from Bevo and follow its own course instead of automatically doing what Texas says to do.
Sooner fan in Houston here. Houston has owned osu the last few years and beat tech as well. I laugh at those who say they could not compete with those bottom dwellers. They already have shown they can. Let em in. We need the Houston market. Imagine the marketing tool when the big 12 can tell a kid that their family can drive 10th min every other year to watch their son play. Think about it people.
Never hard of Barry Tramel but obviously he knows nothing about the University of Houston. The Houston (UH) Cougars are a program and University on the rise in a big way! UH sold out it’s stadium for every game last year and draws more than Baylor. UH was just granted Tier 1 research status and funding by the State of Texas, TxTech and Baylor don’t have that. UH has enrollnent of 38,000. That would make UH the #3 largest school in the BIG 12. Houston has allot of sports history. 5 NCAA final fours, 4 Cotton Bowls, Heisman and Lombardi award winners, and 16 national championships in Golf. Houston is building a new stadium that can seat 50k and would raise the BIG 12′s academic standards.
I went to a game in Houston. It’s true their stadium is not much. But, they do play good football and there’s potential there. It’s sad TX A&M wants to do what they want to do but at this point it would surprise me if they didn’t join the SEC. Still, I don’t think that leaves remaining Big XII schools with no other choice left but to try to beg the Pac 12 to take us.
Joining the Pac 12, presuming they’d want us, is to my mind unnecesary and not a well thought out proposition. The distances are just too great for one thing. And we all know that we’re two different distinctive regions of the same united but large country. Conference football games should be something where at least a 1000 or so of the visiting teams fans can reasonably drive there. It adds a lot, really. And since conference rivalries are so built up, if you’re going to hate your rivals so much, it is much more reasonable and manageable if you and they at least have SOMETHING else in common. Being from the same region of the country is quite a bit more than nothing to still after the rivalry have as a tie that binds.
The schools still want to sell tickets to their games in spite of how important TV is. The schools still desperately want somebody to care enough to be there and not just watch on TV. For sure, they want a pretty good financial commitment from you to come to the games. Ticket revenue is comparably important to TV revenue. So, fans who attend games should matter some. And I think fans who actually attend games get something out of seeing fans of the other team in the stadium too for a conference games. It makes it more real to them. Then a lot of fans get something out of going to some conference road games. 5000 – 6000 OSU fans were at the OSU – Kansas game where OSU clinched a W-L tie for the Big XII South. Besides what fans get out of having actual fans of the other teams at games in some number, and get out of having conference road games they can actually attend to go to, there’s also such a thing as regional pride. Regional pride does mean something and it has a value beyond some TV money. It means enough that for sure it shouldn’t be thrown away lightly.
Regional pride is what makes SEC people who hate their rivals still cheer SEC when their particular SEC team wins a non-conference game.
Losing A&M ? Houston is at least Big East caliber and the Big East is still a BCS conference. What the Big XII/10 most needs to do is stay a BCS league and Houston doesn’t hurt the Big XII in that regard. Somebody more local who’s at least workable does every bit as much for you if not more than somebody else a thousand miles away or whatever who may be better in some respects but who’s not from your same region of the country. Being closer balances things out more than you might give it credit for.
If Washington State can be a Pac 12 school, Houston can be a Big XII school. If A&M leaves like they seem likely to do, realistically, it’s between Houston and TCU for a replacement. If TCU would even still be available. But if it’s Houston, Houston is not the hopelessly unworthy and unworkable option Berry Tramel is painting it to be. It would be nicer to keep A&M, but you work with what you’ve got at hand.
And yes BYU is too far away and too different on top of that to be an option to consider ‘at hand’.
Doesn’t mater how big TCU’s stadium is. They’re lucky to get 15k fans in it when they are really really good. Baylor out draws TCU and they have been awful for 15 years. Houston is a far better choice than TCU.
I think Iowa hasn’t had that much success against the 100,000 seat stadium club in the Big 10. They might enjoy playing all the old Big 12 north teams and still have the top teams in the south to make their schedule creditable. If you want to go back to 12 teams that would make the north with BYU. You could add TCU or houston in the south. There would be a balance in each division of about three top teams in each division.
BYU would be an excellent choice because it has a national following. That’s why ESPN jumped on the BYU bandwagon when it decided to become an independent. And BYU is the only other university in the country (besides UT) that has its own television network.
The BYU-Oklahoma opener in the Cowboys new stadium two years ago and the similar game scheduled for this fall with TCU show that BYU can draw lots of fans in Big-12 country.
Now, if we can just convince the backward administrators here at Mizzou that BYU would be the logical choice, then the Big-12 could be saved as a viable conference.
UH makes much more sense than OSU, ISU, KS, KU…UH has a larger student body than all of those schools and is located in one of the largest cities in America with almost 6,000,000 population (larger than the ENTIRE state of Oklahoma) and has recently been elevated to a Tier 1 university (Which B12 Schools outside of UT and TAM can say that?) And besides that, UH sits in the middle of a ton of football, basketball, baseball, track, volley ball talent (I suspect that is why TAM and anyone from Oklahoma would object to UH entrance…they don’t believe UH should be able to take advantage of the athletic talent in their own front yard).
UH was really, really good at one time in football, basketball, baseball, swimming, track…you know, the days before the SWC stabbed them in the back and used political nonsense to exclude them from going to the B12.
With the added revenue and prestige of being in a BCS conference, it would take almost no time for UH to get back to it’s glory days in sports!
Yes indeed. UH makes much much more sense than OSU, ISU, KS, KU, Baylor, Texas Tech….the only schools that have a stronger case for B12 is OU, Texas, TAM.
So, stop with the “stupid” stuff and stop putting down UH. Had OSU been kicked around as much as UH they would be a member of the Big Sky Conference where they truly belong.
The key is BYU. I am pretty sure the Big XII is going to lose Missouri as well as Texas A&M. If they receive an SEC offer, they go because the SEC is selling the one thing the Big XII does not possess, i.e., stability. Thus, you have to add at least 2 teams, better 4. I would add BYU and Boise State, and to get to 12, Houston and Air Force. TCU and SMU bring little to the table which is new, and frankly, it gives too much of a concentration in Texas. Then, I would move OSU into a north configuration with BYU, Boise, KU, KSU, AFA, and OSU.
I would add AFA to the south with the remaining 5 we have now; UT, OU, Baylor, Tech, Houston, and AFA. It keeps travel costs down. As far as those who want to poo poo AFA, well, OU fans just who did give OU its best game this season. AFA plays a very unique, special kind of football and they do not shy away from big opponents.
My north would be BYU, Boise, OSU, KU, KSU, and ISU, and AFA, and the south would consist of OU, UT, Tech, Baylor, Houston, and AFA.
Hmmm… Houston doesn’t belong in any discussions involving the Big 12 but they have won the last TWO meetings with Oklahoma State in 2008 and 2010… they may not have the pedigree of a Texas or Oklahoma, but they deserved the Big 12 slot over Baylor many years ago if not for political reasons.. they are a great fit! And FYI if you do any research whatsoever, Houston has already drawn up plans for a new larger state-of-the-art football and basketball facility, which would probably be a lock to happen if they get the Big 12 invite.
Well said. Should have invited BYU several years ago instead of Baylor. Dumb move. Should have invited them this year before they went independent and signed a multi-million dollar deal with ESPN. Double dumb move. I think BYU has sold out their 65,000 seat stadium nearly every game for the last several seasons. They also have a national following. ESPN knows it. That’s why they will televise 10 of their 12 games this year. BYU and TCU would have made the conference stronger in every way.
Too bad the Big 12 doesn’t have time to develop a school for inclusion into its conference. North Texas would be a good choice. If they were admitted into the Big 12 they could develop into the dominate sports power in all of North Texas, a very big market for both athletes and TV’s. N Texas is building a new football stadium. Already has an enrollment of over 40,000 students. Denton is really nice town, not too far North of Dallas or Ft. Worth. But it would take time to develop and the Big 12 doesn’t have much time left.
Here is the new “Big 12″ conference after all shakes out.
Houston, Texas Tech, TCU, OU, OSU, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, BYU, Boise State. A solid conference, people happy to be there, Oklahoma teams don’t have to worry about people who don’t want to be there, and these teams will get better with more exposure. A stout non conference schedule would give these teams respect. Saves the Texas recruiting base.
What about San Diego State?
It’s located in a Top 30 TV market and in fertile recruiting ground. The sports programs have been rising as of late too.
UH is getting a new stadium soon!!! We have sold out every home game for the past 2 years. Please do more research before putting down UH.
Better get the Big 12 back to 12 teams. Replace aTm with UH – they will be getting a new stadium, and do have a good following. Being part of the Big 12 would only increase that following. Also, try to get BYU and Air Force to fill the gap left by Nebraska and CU.
Actually the more I think about it, I can’t really blame TX A&M for wanting nothing to do with a Longhorn Network that televises high school games. If living with something like that is the price for staying in the same conference as Texas, everybody else should be proactively looking hard for whatever option there might be to have. That is just an unacceptable advantage to concede to Texas. I wonder how it will work out for the Longhorns when everybody in this area at least that’s any shred of notable refuses to play them anymore. Which is what I would hope would happen if Texas intends to force the high school games on their network issue.
ou fans will say anything to spin things against their big brother in Stillwater. I’m not sure “Houston has owned OSU the last few years”, but Houston has indeed played very well as OSU fans are well aware of and enjoys a 2-1 series advantage against OSU looking back ten years. Everytime in the three games, home team wins. Before I show the scores, when is ou going to play a road game at Houston? Didn’t think so!
2006 @HOU Hou 34 – OSU 25
2007 @OSU OSU 56 – HOU 37
2009 @HOU Hou 45 – OSU 35
Side note….2006 was a rough year as the Cowboys went only 7-6, having trouble beating anybody, but the pokes although losing to Houston, still managed to beat Alabama, which SEC fans and writers would leave you believing is the best conference that the universe could ever produce or imagine. How could they let this loss to a bad OSU team happen? It happened again in 2009, only this time Georgia took Alabama’s place in getting beat by OSU….same year as the Cougs beating the Cowboys.
The Big 12 needs to get to 12 teams immediately! If the world moves to 16 team super conferences, those conferences at 9 or 10 teams will be left behind. As a Sooner in California, I would love to see OU in the Pac12 (err..16). That said, if I were Bebee, I would replace Nebraska and Colorado with BYU and Boise State – I’m not sure you can ever replace a Nebraska, but BYU and Boise State are both far superior to Colorado and would only improve in the Big 12. The addition of Salt Lake City and the Mormon population and Idaho, not to mention the ESPN love for BSU would make for good TV. Adding time zones also allows for easier triple-headers most weekends. The Big 12 North would have three teams that have been regulars in the top 25 over the past 5-10 years (BSU, BYU and Missouri). A strong North has been a traditional problem in the Big 12, this may solve the issue.
As for the addition to the Big 12 South, you already have OU/TU/OSU as top 25 programs and TTech/Baylor on the rise. I think Houston or TCU would be viable options. Both programs would improve (TCU doesn’t need to improve much) by joining a BCS conference and I’d require Houston to use Reliant stadium until they have an on campus facility worthy of hosting a Big 12 game. Worst case, I would require it for OU/Texas. If the new Houston stadium is better than the weakest Big 12 stadium, then I would let them host B12 games. While I don’t think you gain TV impact with Houston or TCU, I think you want to own more of the Texas market once TAM enters the SEC.
In my opinion, this scenario allows the Big 12 to keep the TV money on a per school basis (based upon the BYU/ESPN contract alone) while positioning the Big 12 for any future consolidation. With 6 teams that visit the top 25 frequently and two heavy weights, the conference looks as stong as any other conference. The Big East football schools seems ripe for mutany, so picking up a Louisville or others to reach 16 is possible.
Like I said, if I were Bebee, I’d get agressive now. Of course, I’m not Bebee, so I’ll enjoy attending OU games at Berkeley/Stanford/UCLA/USC..etc.
Boomer
BYU or Bust. Without them and their national following the league will die. But like has been mentioned they aren’t coming without OU & UT sticking around. Why would they? They got a pretty sweet gig going with ESPN right now.
Houston would make perfect sense in every way except the bottom line. They can (and have) compete with the weaker Big 12 teams like OSU and TTU, but they don’t have the attendance or Tv impact. All this talk of some grand new stadium..have you been to Houston? How long did it take just to sell out Robertson on a semi-consistent basis? Houston would be a solid addition but right now the Big 12 needs to think about survival..$$. All this talk about Texas teams joining the Pac12 is ridiculous. Not feasible.
We can simplify the discussion tremendously. There are only two numbers to look at: size of the television market and the ratings for televised football in that market. There is no replacing the impact that losing A&M has on both the Dallas and Houston markets. TCU’s program has improved tremendously, but it still isn’t a big draw. Houston is competetive in it’s conference, but is still small. The Big 12 doesn’t need another OSU / Baylor / Kansas / K-State wanna be program. They need heavy hitters.
So the discussion needs to shift to teams that can bring in a big share of a large market. BYU brings Salt Lake City to the table, but the conservative nature of that market makes it a little less desirable to a lot of advertisers.
I think the Big 12′s days are numbered. It makes more sense for the Pack 10 to add the Texas and Oklahoma markets than it does for the Big 12 to draw other big markets under it’s umbrella.
The only thing “kooky” is the fool who wrote this blog with no research on Houston at all. This sounds more like the angry ramblings of an OSU fan still mad about the 2009 game.
“Houston hasn’t been a big-time player on the college scene in 20 years.”
Really? What do you call Case Keenum? I would think a finalist for the Davey O’Brien and 7th in Heisman voting, who had 2 5,000+ yard seasons and is in a position to break several NCAA records would count as a big-time player, don’t you?
“But Houston plays in a 32,000-seat stadium.”
Yes, for only one or two more seasons. The current stadium will be torn down and completely replaced by a new $120 million, 40,000-50,000 seat stadium, and the school has already raised over 80% of the money for the stadium.
Let a&m go. I love big 12 football and if they don’t want to be here. They should leave. Dan bebee is a joke of a commissioner. The big 12 needs to act fast. Invite BYU, Boise TCU or Houston. I don’t care just get back to 12 or go to 14 teams. Another thing that is not mention is why don’t the big 12 raid the big east? It’s all about new markets. Cincy, west Virginia, Pitt or Rutgers? It’s worth a shot to try. Byu I think would be a good fit but I’d like to see them “try” to get Notre Dame. Yeah I know it’s a long shot but if big 10 can take Nebraska. We can try.
A summary of a couple of repeated thoughts:
Univ. of Houston is a 35K+ student body commuter school
in a metro area of 9 million people.
A tier 1 schoolwho is building a new 40K+ stadium,
expandable to over 50K.
Many of the Big Time Big 12 schools
could play @ Deluxe Reliant Stadium
when they come down to Houston.
Being an hour away, adding Houston
would put a “dent” in A&M recruiting.
Nice pay back for A&M bolting from the Big 12
Big 12 “survival” hopes rely on adding a nonBCS school.
–Big 12 will have to make a few concessions
IF they decide to add BYU.
–TCU? Rumor 5 million buy out from the Big Least
–Air Force? Good fan base, nat’l following, ties in the Colo Springs/Denver market
–Louisville &/or Cincinnati combo? The Big Least turned down a 1.2 billion TV offer from ESPN, so, no they aren’t moving over to a more fractured BCS league than their own.
Notre Dame? Catholics may believe in Purgatory,
but Big 12 stability is worse.
Could the Big East & Big 12 form some type of merger?
What is faulty is allowing UT to run roughshod over the Big 12, destroying now its second conf.