Big 12: How about a Big East alliance?
The search continues for a solution to a 10-team Big 12 football format. Even Bob Stoops, who has as much to lose from a conference championship game as any man in college football, said he will miss the Big 12 title game. “We kind of like the Big 12 championship game,” Stoops told our man John Helsley.
Stoops pointed out that his biggest beef with the title game was that every league didn’t play one. But now that the two major holdouts of a title game — Pac-10 and Big Ten — are poised to initiate a title game, the Big 12 could be backing off. Irony of ironies. “I’ve always said, ‘It’s too bad everyone doesn’t play one,’” Stoops said. “Now, everyone else is playing one and we’re not. So it’s kind of flipped.”
I’ve already trotted out Bill Snyder’s idea of two five-team divisions. And here’s another idea, which is even more radical.
OU played Cincinnati in 2008 in Norman. By Bryan Terry, The Oklahoman.
How about a Big 12/Big East alliance, which basically would exist for the purpose of having their two champions meet in a championship game?
I know, it sounds wild. And it would run counter to NCAA rules and would need a waiver that would come under much more scrutiny than a simple waiver to allow a 10-team league to stage a championship game.
But I’ll bet the rest of the BCS leagues would support such an endeavor.
Think it through. If the Big Ten and Pac-10 join the ACC and the SEC in playing title games, only the Big 12 and the Big East would be without championship stages. Neither has enough teams (10 in the Big 12, eight in the Big East) to satisfy the rule.
But form an alliance that would actually exist only for the purpose of staging a championship game, and the powers-that-be might go for it.
I thought of this idea last week but wondered if it was too far-fetched. Then I got an email from a reader who suggested the same thing, and I knew I at least wasn’t standing alone.
Here’s how it could work, although certainly all kinds of ideas could be added.
* The two leagues could form some kind of scheduling alliance. OU plays Cincinnati this season, and Iowa State plays Connecticut next year. Those are the only Big 12/Big East matchups scheduled for the future.
But the leagues have played home-and-home series quite often this decade. Pitt-Nebraska. West Virginia-Colorado. South Florida-Kansas. UConn-Baylor.
* Petition the NCAA to allow for a championship game between the two aligned leagues. Sell it as some kind of competitive-necessity. The NCAA makes all kinds of waivers. Extra basketball games for events outside the continental U.S. Extra football games for teams that play at Hawaii.
* Figure out a way to share the revenue, which frankly would be the biggest problem. You would think ratings for Texas-Pitt or Oklahoma-West Virginia would be bigger than for Texas-Colorado or Oklahoma-Missouri, but the networks apparently have been awfully generous to the Big 12 already. This would require some serious and delicate negotiation.
* How to handle automatic-qualifying for a BCS bowl would be another sensitive matter. That’s where support from other conferences might end and protests from leagues like the Mountain West would intensify, unless the Mountain West can secure its own automatic slot. I think the Mountain West is going to get there, but just in case it doesn’t, this would be a divisive issue.
* The Big 12 would drive a hard bargain on location. Probably demand a 2-1 ratio for having the game at JerryWorld in Arlington. The Big East could counter with several new NFL venues to stage the game. The Redskins’ FedEx Field. Baltimore’s M&T Bank Stadium. Philadelphia’s Lincoln Financial Field. And maybe the best carrot of all; the New Meadowlands Stadium, which will be shared by the Giants and Jets when it opens this season.
A Big 12/Big East championship game played in the shadow of New York City? Are you kidding me? You can’t buy that kind of exposure.
The Big 12 would be back on the big stage of Championship Saturday, with an even bigger profile than it has with its current South Division coronation. OU or Texas has won six straight Big 12 titles, and only one game, UT’s 13-12 squeaker over Nebraska last December, has been closer than 14 points. Scores have been 42-3, 70-3, 38-17, 62-21.
Other conferences might support the petition, just in the hope of pinning a defeat on a BCS title game contender, be it OU, Texas or a Big East upstart like West Virginia and Cincinnati, which have come close in recent years to making the Big Bowl.
I don’t know if this idea has any legs or not. But again, it’s worth talking about in the new order of Big 12 and college football.
-------------Berry Tramel can be heard Monday through Friday from 4:40-5:20 p.m. on The Sports Animal radio network, including AM-640 and FM-98.1. You can e-mail him here and follow him on Twitter @BerryTramel. Visit Berry's website here.
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Comments
Barry- I still think maybe Arkansas, for certain Louisville and I still think BYU.
Big East seems like a stretch. Personally i still think MIssouri and Texas A&M are “bucking” to leave the Big whatever. I pray and hope the sooner state teams would just go to the Pac 14 and let Texas either join them or be Southwest Conference edition #2. Call there bluff! Big Ten isn’t going to give the Longhorns
what they want nor will the SEC or obviously the Pac Ten. Reality will hit Texas that the world doesn’t start and end in Austin. (Thank God!) If Texas decides to
be stupid why should the Sooner universities? I still don’t understand following
ignorance. Lets move on while we have the opportunity. Its not going to be there for ever. I remember taking my son to the 2003 Red River Shootout and during the 65-13 beatdown I don’t remember thinking the Longhorns were anything special or even better then Tulsa University. We are Oklahoma and we need to start remembering it. BOOMER SOONER!!!
It took me a while to disect this idea and come up with a conceptual explanation that makes sense and fits into the current Post Season format. Put forth a rule change that will allow any two conferences who do not have a conference championship game to play a Championship Weekend Alliance/Bowl Game, in addition to any Holiday Season Bowl they may be invited to. For the purposes of the BCS this would have the same effect as a CCG. You could conceivably have a #1 ranked Oklahoma playing a #2 ranked Rutgers and the loser would most likley be out of the BCS Championship, would still have a conference Championship and still be eligible for a BCS/Bowl Game and each conference would split an extra Bowl of Cash for the Alliance Game. Since we have learned in the past few weeks its all about the money, this concept makes perfect sense. Another benefit to this idea it doesn’t allow a Conference Champion who has earned the Championship over 8-10 weeks to lose the Championship in one game to a Cinderella Team on Championshiop Weekend, such as K-State Losing to A&M in 98, or OU losing to K State in 2003
Could call such a combined conference/alliance as the Crazy 18.
Remember, it isn’t about playoff or championship logic, but about money and TV sets.
This is a great idea, and foranother reason not mentioned I think. The Big XII and Big East have shared the ignanomous reputation recently of being the confrences likely to be plucked for expansion by other conferences. This mini alliance along with some intra conference scheduling could stop that in it’s tracks (especially if some of those intra conference games ocurred in basketball as well). Most imortantly both conferences would gain immensely. The Big East craves credability which this “title” game would give plus they’d get access to the prized Texas recruiting ground. The Big XII would gain access to Florida and more importantly, access to that prized NYC media market. More than Rutgers in the Big 10 this sort of alignment would have the best chance of getting NY folks interested in college football. Folks around here still like the Pitt, WV, Syracuse, even Cinncy and Louvislle games. Losing those would hurt interest I think. But keep those and add possible matches with Texas, A&M, OU, even Missouri and you will diffinetly get some buzz. None of those teams will walk when the money starts pouring in hands over fist!
Love the idea, the team that won would shoot up the ranks and most likely play for the NC. Like you said Big D or NYC is great exposure for both leagues. Both these coneferences need more revenue streams and this would help.
To me this just shows how far the Big 12 has already fallen in stature. Now we are all of a sudden on the level of the Big East? This new conference isn’t good for OU, and it will be precieved as weak in the media. A conference that is OU and Texas heavy at the top is not good! This reminds me of the Big 8 days when it was OU and Nebraska always at the top. I don’t think 5 years from now the Big 12 will be behind the ACC, SEC, Big 10 and Pac 10. That is going to hurt the pocket book, and will again bring new realignment. I just wish they would act and get it over with now!
i guess i’am not as smart as all the other posters that think they have it figured out but I like the idea.
[...] of far-fetched but fun to think about. How about the idea of an alliance of the Big 12/10 and Big East. Complete with a conference championship showdown since neither conference has enough members to [...]
[...] permalink Here's a great read from Berry Tramel down at the Oklahoman. A Big 12/Big East alliance? Thoughts? Big 12: How about a Big East alliance? | Berry Tramel's Blog [...]
I was thinking the same thing yesterday, but it felt too ridiculous to mention — it seems like several of us are in the same boat.
Here’s a twist: Get Notre Dame to sign on with the Big East as possibly filling their position in the conference championship game (if ND’s record and BCS ranking are above any Big East teams).
I like the idea but its a looooooooooooooooooong shot. Won’t happen. Just like when you said the Big 12 was dead. Didn’t happen.
Berry I don’t care for that idea. The Big East is the weakest major conference and now the Big XII is probably not too far ahead of them. At this point, I kind of wish that Texas A & M had gone to the SEC and that the Big X would have admitted Missouri as well as Nebraska. Why you ask? Had that happened OU and OSU would have been forced to accept an offer from the PAC 10. As for Texas, let Texas do what it does so well, let them bake in the Texas heat. OU and OSU need to get the Texas monkey off their backs. Texas has three choices, and they don’t bluff! Texas can become an independent, they can tag along with A & M over to the SEC or they can come along with OU and OSU to the PAC whatever. The Big XII Conference is in limbo right now! It’s time for new leadership and it’s time to make the tough decisions.
Thing is I don’t blame the Big XII Conference or Dan Bebee for what’s happened. I blame the athletic and presidential administrations of both OU and OSU for their “wait and see” attitude. OU and OSU have made huge monetary committments to the sport of football. College football is king above all else in the state of Oklahoma. We don’t have any NFL teams in the state of Oklahoma. It’s important that the administrations of both OU and OSU realize that they have to be part of one of the best football conference’s in America if they are to continue to be highly visible in college football. Conferences carry brand names just like teams do, and while I don’t see any air coming out of the sails of OU or Texas, the Big XII Conference has taken a huge blow!
I’m almost of the opinion that anymore, the way the landscape changes so swiftly, it might be wise not to even associate a “number of participants” along side your conference’s name. The SEC for example. Just call it the Pacific Conference. Change the Big 10 to The Great Lakes Conference. If we could get Arkansas, who says you need twelve teams? The Big 10 has actually been eleven teams for a few years, now there are twelve.
my bet is that the Big 12 – 2 will have more to lose and nothing to gain. Whereas the Big East will have nothing to lose in most games.
THis is not a benni to the league other than to create the preception of a championship game. If you need that, then just take the top two teams at the end of the season and they can play again. whoopie.
I like this. Berry explains and defends his opinions.
I like this better than messing around with Stanford, UW, Berkeley, Oregon et al.
Ugh. Is there a bigger indictment of saving the BigXII than people seriously proposing a championship alliance with the BigEast? Because no one from the north will ever win the conference again, this is effectively the same thing that would have happened if the BigXII South would have joined the Pac-10, except that the 5 dead weight teams are included in the money and the prospect of having a compelling championship match up is about 1/6 of what it would have been in the Pac-10.
Beating a dead horse. Find another topic already as your obsession for this non-issue has crossed the line to disturbing. As much as I despise soccer, I would rather read about that than look at another word you write about this topic.
Was hoping for OU joining the PAC 12 but the proposed Battle of the Bigs would gain a huge TV audience
I like the idea (again) of pursuing Arkansas and Louisville to have an ACTUAL Big-12, but with some twists. I would move OU and OSU to the north with the 2 NEW teams assigned to the south, again having 6 teams per division. Each team would play 8 conference games, each team in their division PLUS 1 same opposite division team every year, and rotate the remaining 2 opposite division games. This would maintain the Red River Rivalry, and possibly create some new OPPOSITE division rivalries. Doing this would tap into the Kentucky TV market some (with all of Arkansas’) and keep the Big-12 tourament…It could work!!!
I think this has a lot of potential. Geography and population have limited the Big 12′s marketability and expansion options. An alliance with the Big East makes both seemingly “compromised” leagues more respectable. It also brings more exposure for all involved, and it stirs up some intriguing competitive opportunities (which was why the PAC-16 proposal was so compelling).
While I am glad the Big 12 held together, the prospect of playing a neutered slate of North schools is not exactly riveting right now. This is innovative (which from my TN perch seems to be something the Big 12 administration lacks), and yet it preserves our identity.
I like it as a fan.
The BCS committee would object though.
If one of the two conference teams suffer a loss in a alliance championship game, it’s perceived as being weak for the bowl. ie. If Texas loses to West Virgina, Fiesta Bowl would not be happy about Texas being in their bowl game as a consolation. Bowl attendance could suffer as a result w/ lower possible tv ratings.
ie. When West Virgina lost to Pit a few years ago in their final game ruining their national title chances, the Orange Bowl declined West Virgina. (Of course WV went to Fiesta Bowl and destroyed Oklahoma)
That is the same rational now used to justify not having a playoff system— it hurts bowl games.
One could easily say once they went to #1 vs #2 BCS national championship game- it forever changed the other bowl games significance. The ratings for some of the BCS bowl games indicated that. They can’t get any worse.
Ideally…
With creative thinking it is possible to still have bowl games in addition to a 4 team small playoff round with teams playing title conferences.
First get rid of divisions within conferences to ensure the best two teams make it to the championship game each year. No more Oklahoma vs KState.
That would make Championship Saturday in essence elimination day. Four teams that won on Championship Saturday play the next week for the right to go to the national championship game.
If they did that last year championship Saturday would have looked like-
Big 10- Ohio St vs Iowa
Pac 10- Oregon vs Oregon St (They did play)
ACC- Ga Tech vs Clemson (they played)
SEC- Florida vs Alabama (they played)
Alliance game Big 12 vs Big East- Texas vs Cin
Alliance game Mountain West vs WAC- TCU vs Boise St
Committee would vote on the 4 best teams to play in playoffs to begin the next week on Dec 12- (likely matchups would have been)
#1 Alabama vs #4 Ohio St
#2 Texas vs #3 Boise St
Winners of the game play for National Title.
They then can have better BCS matchups as BCS buster teams won’t be as prevalent leading to better BCS attendance and ratings meaning more $$.
Another out there idea. However, Edison found 1,000 ways NOT to make a light bulb, so keep them coming. I’ve said it a million times, OSU is vulnerable in the next conference realignment. Need to pursue a dual strategy: do everything possible to keep the Big 12 alive, and be the first one out the door when it does happen.
You mean what lies ahead…as in LIES, LIES, LIES!!! Look! No expansion! Fine by me! No conference championship game! Are you kidding me??? Do you just want to play the death card with the lost revenue and the laughter from the BCS voting polls??? Are you people truly that ignorant??? Here it is! It’s the way it has to be! There are no options, there are no alternatives! Get ready for a dose of reality!
North Division:
OSU
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Iowa State
South Division:
OU
Texas
Texas A & M
Texas Tech
Baylor
Hmmmm? So you want to share TV sets with the Big East….Not gonna happen. Im sure we will be expanding to 12 football schools.
I suggest the diehards get over their dream of luring Arkansas into the remnants of the Big XII. We wish you well but Arkansas is where it belongs, in the SEC. Arkansas looks to its sister states in the South, in terms of history, culture and politics. Ole Miss and LSU are two of the oldest Razorback rivalries (with growing rivalries with ‘Bama, Auburn and Mississippi State), and the Hogs aren’t likely to trade those for the likes of Iowa State and Kansas. The powers that be at Fudville have tried to make this clear but some people have a hard time understanding English.
Not that original of an idea…a Big 10/Big East title game idea has been floating around for years. This just switches the players as the Big 10 is now has 12 and the Big 12 has 10.
While not original, it’s still a great idea. The winners from each conference still get auto-bids to the BCS but this will almost certainitly be a good step towards a playoff. I think the NCAA might be willing to buy it, IF the Big 12 and Big East agree to to expand anymore and all teams agree to not leave. If conference realignment can stop here, it’s a great idea.
Interesting idea – but why would Texas want to play a game like this (and possibly loose and miss out on a national championship BCS game)?
Doesn’t UT run that conference of yours?
If Pac-16, Big-16, SEC-16, AC-16 evolve out of expansion, we potential “outsiders” will need a plan to get some BCS attention and the idea of having BE, MWC, B12, inter-conf championship games or mergers may be the only way to get it. Another option is to get those politicians going again and look for legal or legislative action because there is no fair playoff system now and we know if expansion continues there would be less and less chance for a championship (or even a top 10 ranking) to ever be possible for whoever is non-BCS. Expansion mania without a playoff system/tournament could eventually lead to the equivalent of a college football “caste system” where your program cannot move into the “upper class” of football society by an intentional structural design. Maybe we are looking at the eventual development of a three group Div I football nation- FBS/BCS (1A), Mid-major Purgatory with possible dropping down to FCS (1AA) or elimnating football any time, and FCS (1AA) as it is now. This situation basically was real for some programs and it can happen again- We have been there, the Bearcats almost dropped football twice since 1980 because of being in Mid-major Purgatory and an independent during most of that time. OK, now you know what could happen to all of those in that group… NOW THINK ABOUT HOW WRONG THAT IS – BEARCATS HAD A SHOT AT NATIONAL CHAMPION LAST YEAR UP UNTIL NEBRASKA MISSED THE LAST SECOND EASY FIELD GOAL VS TEXAS DURING LAST CONFERENCE PLAYOFF GAME!
[...] Big 12: How about a Big East alliance? | Berry Tramel's Blog "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of [...]
Interesting idea. Doesn’t have to affect the BCS bowls at all. The conference champions keep their bids and the alliance bowl winner will have its shot at the BCS Championship Game. It’s the purest example of what all conference championship are played for: cash. To that end, moving it back and forth every season instead of 2-1 may make economic sense. The Big 12 has the JerryBowl and the Big East has Meadowlands, Yankee Stadium and FedEx Field. While none of those seat 100,000, they are all in huge media and influencer markets which would offset the seat loss. Who wouldn’t want to see this game played in NYC/NJ?
If the Big East is playing the Big 12 it’s called a BCS game.
Both conferences have automatic bids…so why would either one want a championship game against each other?
Stupid idea.
[...] a guy who I once ripped for the stupidest column I ever read (he wanted to abolish the NFL Draft): the Big East and Big 12 champs should play in a "championship" game. These two are now pretty far behind the SEC, PAC-12, and Big Ten-Twelve and a venue like this [...]
[...] a guy who I once ripped for the stupidest column I ever read (he wanted to abolish the NFL Draft): the Big East and Big 12 champs should play each other in a "championship" game. These two are now pretty far behind the SEC, PAC-12, and Big Ten-Twelve and a venue like this [...]
Tram,
I don’t know if you did this today b/c I didn’t listen to the entire broadcast but you have got to debate this with Traber and Eschbach. This would be fun and open up all kinds of worms. I actually like the idea if it doesn’t cost a conference a BCS birth.