If Mizzou bolts, where does Big 12 turn?
The Big Ten has announced that it will take another look at expansion, with an eye toward a 12th team that would enable the conference to split into divisions and stage a conference championship football game.
Among the teams labeled as possibilities: Notre Dame (as always, but unlikely), Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Missouri and Nebraska.
Missouri and Nebraska have been together since 1907, when the Missouri Valley Conference was formed. The Valley eventually became the Big Six, Seven, Eight and 12.
Both have their attractions and turnoffs to the stodgy Big Ten. Nebraska brings huge football tradition but little less. No basketball clout. No academic clout. Missouri has become a solid football program; as good as any Big Ten program outside Ohio State, Michigan or Penn State. Missouri’s basketball prowess is solid, too, and its academic standing is at least closer to the Big Ten’s haughty view of itself.
Either school would have to change its recruiting focus if it changed leagues. Both NU and MU make Texas more of a priority in recruiting, with good reason. The Huskers and Tigers now make regular trips to Texas, averaging at least one game a year south of the Red River and a trip to Oklahoma every other year.
What would the Big 12 do if it lost a school to the Big Ten? There is no automatic replacement.
The Big 12 would turn to Arkansas but likely would be rebuffed. The Razorbacks reap great financial rewards in the Southeast Conference. The Hogs’ recruiting in Texas, a natural base of talent, has suffered since it left the Southwest Conference, but Arkansas just began an annual series with Texas A&M in Arlington, trying to counter those effects.
The Big 12 could try to steal a Brigham Young or Utah and create a Rocky Mountain wing of the North Division, with Colorado. Both Utah and BYU are very competitive in both football and basketball. I always thought Louisville would make a good addition to the Big 12, but the Cardinals make more geographic sense if they replace Colorado, not Missouri.
Much more likely for the Big 12 is adding a team from South and moving Oklahoma State to the North Division. The only downside to an OSU move North is what to do with Bedlam scheduling, both football and basketball. But that could be worked out.
The Cowboys probably would love it for competitive reasons, though it could hurt recruiting in Texas. OSU now plays at least two games in Texas every year.
The Big 12 could add Texas Christian. That would hurt the Big 12 on television sets — TCU adds none; Missouri’s departure would cost the league some viewers — and basketball, but not football. TCU’s 10-year run has solidified that program. The Frogs are not flashes; they are a legit program.
No one else in Texas should appeal to the Big 12. Truth is, New Mexico would be a better addition than Houston or anyone else. The Lobos are capable of playing big-time basketball and capable of producing a football following in a state that craves big-time sports.
Chances are, the Big 12 remains the same. But you’ve always got to be prepared.
-------------Berry Tramel can be heard Monday through Friday from 4:40-5:20 p.m. on The Sports Animal radio network, including AM-640 and FM-98.1. You can e-mail him here and follow him on Twitter @BerryTramel. Visit Berry's website here.
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Comments
A better idea would be to ask Colorado to go away and have 10 teams, moving OSU to the North. Or, ask Colorado to go away and add Arkansas and LSU, since these teams are West of the Mississippi. Instantly becoming the premier league.
Berry, despite Mike’s lack of interest this is a very hot topic around the Midwest. Remember the domino effect when Penn State joined the Big Ten. Later Arkansas moved to the SEC and it has been crazy since then. It is really a slow news time when Mike wants an alltime, All-Oklahoma team of OU players. Talk about a small world.
I think the Big 10, who has academic aliances with Missouri, should by pass Mizzou and go with an east coast team. I like the idea of Syracuse or Pitt. No Notre Dame even if they ask.
Mizzou should aggressively pursue going to the Big Ten, as they should earn better bowl bids. Really, how did Iowa State obtain a better bowl bid than Mizzou this year?
Last time I checked, TCU was in the greater Dallas-Ft. WOrth area. No extra TV sets? What am I missing here? The main reason the MWC added TCU was to get into the Dallas TV market. TCU would make A LOT more sense than any of the other possibilities.
Mark-
TCU doesn’t add many TV sets because with 4 other Texas schools in the Big 12 South (Ut, A&M, Baylor, and Tech) there are followers of at least one if not multiple Big 12 teams in that area. Not to mention Dallas is supposedly full of Sooner Alumni.
I’m all for the Big 12 adding TCU because I think the Frogs can compete and compete well, just responding to your comment.
Berry — nice article about the Big 12′s options if Mizzou jumps, but a couple of points. 1) “Nebraska brings no academic clout. . . Missouri’s academic standing is at least closer.” This is inaccurate. Nebraska is ranked ahead of Mizzouri academically by about 10 spots (Nebraska is ranked around 95th and Mizzou (with Oklahoma) is ranked around 105th by US News & World Report); 2) “the Big Ten’s haughty view of itself.” What some call haughty, some call facts. Every single member of the Big 10 is in the Top 75 academically. Only 2 Big 12 members are in the Top 75 (Texas and Texas A&M). Six Big 12 members don’t even make the Top 150. The numbers don’t lie; 3) The only thing holding back Mizzou from seriously considering a jump to the Big 10 (if it is invited) is the rivalry with Kansas. Mizzou fans are very upset over bowl scheduling as of late. When 3 Big 12 teams with lessor records get selected over Mizzou continuously, there is a problem. The Big 12 needs to address this soon; otherwise, Mizzou will go actively looking for a new conference relationship.
Berry,
Why would the University of Houston not be appealing to the Big 12? Up and coming football program. History in football and basketball. Lots of potential eyeballs in the Houston area.
Ugh. If you think the cheating Texas does in the Big XII is bad now, wait until you add another Texas school to the mix…
As for Nebraska, if you actually take a look at their whole portfolio, they are a much better fit that Mizzou for the Big 10(11). They excel in women’s sports (Basketball, Volleyball) and would rival or top Penn State’s history in the later. Nebraska’s academics aren’t that far off from the supposed (but not necessarily upheld) Big 10(11) standards, and Nebraska is pouring money into building up the basketball program, including renovations to the Devaney Center and new practice facilities.
And even though Mizzou would bring some of the viewership in Kansas City and St. Louis with them, Nebraska has a very strong presence and fan base there, not unlike Colorado (which has multiple Nebraska paraphernalia stores within sight of the Rocky Mountains…). Really, though, Nebraska’s fan base is all over the nation–hell, there are more Nebraska fans in the Dallas area than Texas Tech or Baylor, which is yet another important market.
Also, look at it from Nebraska’s POV–their biggest gripe is how the TV exposure (along with everything else) is slanted toward Texas–the Big 10(11) comes with their own network, so that concern is wiped out. Barry Alvarez, AD at Wisconsin is a Nebraska alum/coach, so there would be built-in support for the political side of things. I honestly don’t put much stock into what Dr. Tom already said–if the deal is right, Nebraska would jump, as the Big 8 loyalties were rendered dead with Texas’ dirty oil money.
On a ‘what if’ note…what if the Big 10(11) found some gumption and went for broke in creating the first superconference of 16 teams? They could then take both Nebraska and Mizzou, along with another three teams, and become the Big XVI? Between the TV network, the press exposure, and the boost in audience, it would certainly put the SEC back in its place…
Mizzou complains that they were passed over for a better bowl, but they also fail to realize that their fans aren’t exactly the most loyal in the world. Look at all of the Mizzou’s past bowl games, very hard to sell tickets. Bottom line: Mizzou fans haven’t been shown to travel to bowl games as well as other schools. When a bowl has an option to pick, well they are going to go with the money. Duh and duh.
If Mizzou leaves, the Big XII will not miss them much. Drop Mizzou, pick up Colorado State or Air Force. BYU and Utah are just too far away. I agree that adding TCU to replace Mizzou is kind of silly. How about dropping the Baylor Baptists and replacing them with Houston or TCU? Baylor has always been the soap dropper in the Big XII prison shower, they should be let go.
Nebraska is still bitter about the Big XII championship. There was no Texas bias in the game. NU lost, Texas didn’t necessarily win it. The Husker offense was dead and that last kickoff/penalty combo can be blamed on absolutely no one but the boys in red.
It is understandable being frustrated about TV coverage, with a lot of it going towards Texas teams. But think about the math. Those games we all enjoy watching are paid for by lots of eyeballs watching those advertisements. Nebraska ranks 38th (about 1.8 million) by population as a state, Texas ranks 2nd (24.3 million). So the state of Texas has over 6 million people per team in the Big XII, more than 3 times that of Nebraska. While it sucks that we are stuck watching a lot of Texas teams, the facts are the facts. If NU would support equal distribution of ALL television revenue the issue would be different. But NU has just as much money and capital resources as UT. Its like people thinking Target is that much better than Wal-Mart, when in reality they are the same stores with the same business model.
NU is in the Big XII for the long run, it would be a shame to see them cave to the petulant whims of the Pelini babies and take their ball elsewhere.
“there are more Nebraska fans in the Dallas area than Texas Tech”
Matt, you have obviously never been to the DFW metroplex. I promise that this is 100% false.
Response to Matt……….
I’ve never given much creedance (sp?) to any talk regarding NU leaving the Big XII but the thought of the Big XVI threw me for a loop!
The following would be a poor split for football, but not bad for hoops.
East West
Penn State Nebraska
Cincinnati Iowa
Louisville Missouri
Ohio State Purdue
Indiana Illinois
Pitt Northwestern
Michigan Wisconsin
Michigan St. Minnesota
Obviously NU is a poor geographic fit, moving the conference 300 miles west. Notre Dame would be the better choice, but that ain’t going to happen. A better choice may to be a 14 team league without taking NU and Mizzou.
I don’t think that Missouri would want to leave their traditional rivalrys Particularly with Kansas & Kansas State, however; Houston would likely be a good choice and solidify metro Texas/Oklahoma rivalries. Houstom proper has now surpasses Chicago proper as the 3rd largest city in the U.S.
As an OSU grad living in Houston, I prefer OSU in the South division but would like to see Houston in the Big 12.
Check the last 4-5 US News and World Reports or the national grant rankings. Mizzou has been on an academic and research slide the last 10 years and Nebraska has moved way up.
Mizzou is not the “academic beacon” some of you are making it out to be.
I don’t think any Big XII school will leave. Any advantage to moving is incremental at best. Giving up 100 years or more of rivaleries is just not worth it. I agree with MTS in Missouri, only Texas & Texas A & M are Top 100 schools according to U.S. News & World Report. That said, most of the conference schools have made big strides academically in the last ten years. Until the recession several schools, including OU, Mizzou, Kansas and Nebraska, had over $1B in their endowment funds. It takes time to move up but the trend is positive for the Big XII.
Anyone suggesting that Colorado should “go away” has quite the short memory. The Big 10(11) should just take Notre Dame before NBC pulls the TV contract and this stupid discussion will be over.
Baylor is a top 100 school academically, so maybe relook at the stats.
Also, TCU doesn’t add much value athletically (or academically). They are only good at football.
I would love to see TCU as a Big 12 school. Forget Utah or BYU. How about Colorado State if the Buff’s leave?
First thing, the Big 10 is not going to take Mizzou. It adds nothing to the Conference. Delany, Big 10 Commissioner, wants the extra team for two reasons. 1.) A Division Championship; and 2.) Added electronic media coverage. The second factor means the Big 10 is going to the eastern seaboard. Probably Rutgers to get the New Jersey-New York City market. But assuming a Big 12 team left to join another conference, I can see real problems for the Big 12. Oklahoma State would be foolish to go to the North. Their recruiting base, both academic and athletic, is to a large degree in Texas. (17% of their student body is from Texas. They have an academic recruiting office in DFW. Moreover, in the very foreseeable future, the growth area of Oklahoma will be in Southern Counties as the Dallas metropolitan area moves into the state. You don’t walk away from that to join the North Division.)
A North team leaves. Colorado is going to want Colorado State as the addition. If it doesn’t occur, they probably leave for the Pac-10. Meanwhile, in Texas, there will be a real push to create a reconfiguration of the old SWC. Big 12 could implode.
No one from OSU would want to go to the Big 12 North. Yeah, we would have a much better chance at winning in that division, but we recruit from Texas. Hardly any of our players come from the states north of us. Not to mention, the Big 12 South games are much more anticipated. Oklahoma and Texas are much more alike than Oklahoma and KS, IA, CO, MO. These similarities make us want to play the Texas teams more. I think it’d be a bad day for OSU if we were put in the North.
Mizzou is an up and coming University. Their academics have improved greatly as pointed out by the fact the Big10 are considering them. Their facilities have been upgraded and is considered top notch in the Big12.
If its between NU and MU, MU gets the nod. They bring the KC and STL markets and compete in two of the biggest money generating NCAA sports, basketball AND football.
As for who replaces them in the Big12, my bet would be TCU or Houston, then OSU gets shifted up into the North.
As for keeping the 100 plus year rivalry intact, you simply swap the current Mizzou/Illini game for both football/basketball and replace them with KU. MU will get the Illini during the regular conference schedule.
Now what 2 teams to add to the Pac10? Get all these conferences to play ACTUAL Conference Championship games and your closer to seeing the BCS in playoff format.
Matt- have a little bitterness towards Texas? Might want to see someone about that. Also, check your facts about Nebraska vs. TTU/BU- over 20,000 Baylor alums in Dallas, at least that many from Tech.
Chris- The games in the South division are more anticipated because of the old and new rivalries, not similarities between the 2 states. Texas is more Southern. Oklahoma is more Midwestern. Not to argue- just sayin’…
Missouri and Nebraska are both ok schools but the main concern of the Texas schools except Tech (sorry Red Raiders) in merging with the Big 8 schools to form The Big XII was from the standpoint of academic reputation, particularly because of OU, OSU and Kansas State.
All that to say this: No one is going anywhere.
Give me a break Dave. TCU would improve the academic standings of the Big 12. Are you kidding me? TCU might be an undergraduate school, but it’s a darn good one. TCU competes academically with SMU, not Baylor, and especially not any of the other Big 12 public schools – give me a break. And except for men’s basketball TCU is a high competitor in every other sport it participates in, and they’re making strides in men’s bball. You want to talk about facts…please
Big XII is a power conference, if they lose Missouri they will find an equal or better replacement. Missouri really hasn’t contributed much to the Big XII and has infact been its weakest performer. Missouri’s departure could make way for Utah, BYU or Boise State. This doom and gloom about Missouri leaving has been over done, people get over it.
It seems like TCU is pretty desperate to join the Big XII, but realistically TCU should be the last option for Big XII, just as Missouri is the last option for the Big X. In case Big XII goes shopping for another team, Utah, BYU or Boise State need to be given consideration ahead of TCU.
Texas has more people than the states of Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska and Iowa COMBINED. Heck, Dallas Fort Worth has more people than most of those states. Getting TCU would make perfect sense not only in terms of proximity and market share but also in terms of competitive programs in a number of sports. Utah, BYU and for Chrissakes, Boise State make no sense whatsoever.
To say Mizzou has not been a contributor to the Big12 in football and basketball or in women’s sports really makes no sense. While it might be easy get to frustrated with Pinkel on the football side, the team has been a more consistent team and always dangerous.
Everyone is convinced that Nebraska is back to top form, but the Iowa State loss in Lincoln really makes me wonder combined with losing their top defensive player.
Anyhow, football aside, depending on the academic program, Mizzou is still a top school in many fields…and a bit more fun than Nebraska considering Columbia is close to St.Louis and KC
The best way to get a full compliment of teams in any conference is to have the playoff system come about for football and the conference champs getting automatic bids with only a few “at-large” bids. That would leave ND out in the cold unless they were to get an At-Large playoff bid and would mean every conference would need to have a championship game.
For the Big 10, Notre Dame would be the best fit. Even though ND is already part of the Big East for basketball, it would make since to align both football and basketball into the Big 10. ND is already in a conference with Michigan, Michigan State, and Ohio State for college hockey in the CCHA so I think the rivalries are already in place for a number of sports. That would be the smart move for ND and for the Big10. Although my guess is that the Big10 schools would be worried that such a move would strengthen NDs future and maybe tip the favor back to the Irish and Penn State.
And if you look at the bigger picture, it may make more sense for Colorado and Colorado State to join the Pac 10, Arkansas move into the Big 12 and TCU replace Arkansas in the SEC. That extends the SEC into Texas, adding to their market, helps the PAC 10 achieve their conference championship, and brings yet another Southwest conference member into the fold. Move Oklahoma (even if it is farther south than than OSU) back to the North aligning it more with the old Big 8. Shoot just rename the divisions.
New Mexico would be a great replacement. The school fits geographically, bordering 3 current Big XII states, already has good basketball (#1 MWC) and baseball (took 2/3 from Texas last month), and would bring in a new TV market (Albuquerque/Santa Fe, #44 nationally, 4th in the Big-12) and a natural rivalry with Texas Tech (the schools are only 5 hours apart) and Colorado (7 hours).
Dump the whiny Tigers, BRING IN THE LOBOS!!!!
The Big 12 would be stupid not to add Arkansas to the conference, whether Mizzou bolts or not.
You’re looking at a school that already has major rivalries dating back to the SWC days, and a religous hatred for OU. I would expect the Hogs to be major contenders in the Big 12.
I’m all for adding TCU…why is no one talking about Iowa State leaving…i think that would make more sense than anything else. Get rid of IS move OSU to the north and pick up TCU….Go frogs.
Berry, obviously a slow sports day as you mull Missouri leaving the Big 12 Conference.Snorreee…..
Let me throw this one out for you as another possible topic during this down period while we’re obviously grappling for writing topics.
During the Stoops Era only, name your all Oklahoma high school team on players who have played for the Sooners from 1999-2009.
MJ