Emails on public school/private school flap
The new emails are in, and they’re loaded up on the public school/private school debate. We’ll hit the other stuff first, then jump into the big debate of the summer.
Joshua checked in on Game 4 of the NBA Finals: “The morning after Derek Fisher hits a clutch 3-pointer to tie the game and send Game 4 to overtime, everyone is jumping on Nelson for not ‘defending’ the 3 good enough. If you watch the replay, he had a hand in his face – the best you can do without fouling. If Jeff Van Gundy on ABC would not have said anything and just talked about Fisher’s great shot, then no one in the media (ESPN, sports radio) would even be talking about that.”
Yes they would. I would be, at least. Nelson’s defense was awful. He gave Fisher four or five feet. Fisher talked about how he likes to step into 3-pointers to get a shot off, and he had all kinds of room to get off that shot. Nelson’s hand in the face wasn’t much of a hand in the face. Terrible, terrible defense. In that situation, you guard the line. Nelson guarded the basket like he was afraid Fisher might decide to drive. I think it’s a psychological thing. Players are preached at all their lives to stay between their opponent and the basket, then every once in awhile in the final seconds of a game, they are told to give the guy the basket. The mind doesn’t transfer that easily.
Matt wrote about Justin Chaisson being placed on the OU roster: “Please tell me you are going to write a column about Chaisson. He kidnapped his ex and held a screwdriver to her throat. How does Stoops justify honoring his scholarship? This seems worse than Jarboe to me.”
Well, it does me, too. And I wrote about it a couple of months ago when it was obvious Chaisson was headed to Norman. About the only thing left to say is that Chaisson holds Stoops’ reputation in his hands.
Mark: “I appreciate you speaking your mind, but I am a little disappointed in your column about Blake Griffin and the Clippers. You are usually pretty upbeat but this was depressing. Couldn’t you include some of the positive? Such as his great salary; the hope he brings other young kids; the opportunity to play in the NBA; the chance to make the Clippers a better franchise like Lebron James did, etc. I, too, wish he had landed in a better place, but let’s make the most out of his opportunity and keep our standards high for him.”
Keep our standards high for him? Griffin is about to land in a cesspool. When you land in a cesspool, you don’t look for chemicals to clean it up. You try to get out of the cesspool.
Doyle: “In your column last Monday, you wrote about the quarterbacks who led OU to its seven national championships. You talked about pictures being taken of all the different guys and in one space you mentioned a picture being taken of Davis and Switzer. You said a picture was taken of ‘he and Switzer.’ Where did you learn to write? That sentence was (is) wrong. You wouldn’t take a picture of ‘he,’ you would take a picture of ‘him.’ There is an unwritten grammar rule about that kind of thing that says if you shorten your sentence to ‘a picture of he’ or ‘a picture of him,’ you will soon learn which is more correct. Get it? In this case, ‘a picture of him and Switzer’ is correct! You goofed, but then you do that a lot. Mike Stoops to Texas to replace Mack Brown? Bob Stoops to Cleveland? Bob Stoops to Denver? I could go on and on with your ridiculous predictions. Why don’t you just write about sports news instead of trying to predict the world of tomorrow? Then to make a grammatical error like you did is unforgivable.”
How about I just come over and you cut off my head.
Larry, our old Texas Tech fan, wrote about Bob Stoops: “No one should know better than a Sooner fan that any time you go into the head coaching market, it’s a crapshoot. Back in ’99, Oklahoma won the lottery. Bob Stoops is in my authoritative and widely sought opinion the gold standard for college football coaches. What he has accomplished in his 10 seasons at Oklahoma is astounding, and I’m not just referring to his won/loss record. He’s also a shining example for any father to point to in trying to instruct his son on how to conduct oneself as a competitive sportsman. I respect and admire the guy (and dearly wish he coached in another conference so I could continue to admire him from further afar). That he has doubters much less detractors among Sooner fandom befuddles me. I know a couple of yahoos who claim to have soured on him and wish Oklahoma would ‘move on.’ Neither of them actually attended Oklahoma University, but they’re both ‘No. 1 Sooner fans,’ walking talking authorities on all things OU. I don’t bother to debate the point with them. I might as well discuss politics with my dog.”
Great points, all the way, including about the dog. But the point about the crapshoot and lottery when hiring a coach is well-stated, and that’s EXACTLY why schools tend to hire head coaches. They want as much proven commodity as they can get. And it’s still a crapshoot. But it takes a lot of faith to hire an assistant coach. Bully for the decision-makers who do just that. The most successful coaches in OU history were not head coaches when hired. Stoops, Wilkinson, Switzer, Fairbanks. OSU has a long run of hiring quality assistants to be its head coach – Jim Stanley, Jimmy Johnson, Pat Jones, Bob Simmons, Les Miles, Mike Gundy, and it’s mostly paid off handsomely for the Cowboys.
OK. Time to move on to the public school/private school debate. I wrote that the OSSAA was correct in voting down the measure that would bump up most private schools two classes. My solution: move private schools and magnet schools up one class. But an even better solution, I said, was to start talking reasonably. Anyway. Let’s get to it.
Marc: “I had a daughter graduate from McGuinness in ’04 who played softball and basketball, and I have a daughter there now. I am on the booster club and am very involved with all athletic aspects of the school (and the politics that go along with them). I agree with you that there are a lot more knuckleheads in public school because knuckleheads don’t last long at schools like McGuinness before being shown the door. But how often do you see public school coaches keep these kinds of kids around? They might be at the school but not on the athletic teams. And can you tell me that the kids at McGuinness are better athletes overall than kids from John Marshall or Douglass? Millwood has more Division I athletes in five years than McGuinness has ever had. Our kids may be better coached and more disciplined but not better athletes. The sad part of all this is that none of it came up until McGuinness had a run of championships the likes of what no one has ever seen in this state. We had all kinds of allegations about recruiting and paying players, none of which is true. All but a handful of them came up through the traditional Catholic feeder schools. And the private schools even drastically reduced their boundaries before this year. But some people just can’t take losing so they have to point fingers at those who win and claim that things aren’t fair. Where were these complainers when we were in 5A and struggling just to make the playoffs? There wasn’t any whining back then.”
You know, this dilemma is not going to get anywhere so long as people keep making ridiculous statements. And the victim-mentality of the McGuinness people is not going to get us anywhere. This issue DID come up before McGuinness started winning championships. It came up to a vote in 1992 and again in 1998, and it was an issue even before that. And Marc is making the public schools’ point about knuckleheads; no, coaches don’t keep around the knuckleheads. But they’re still in school, counting against the enrollment in public schools.
William: “Your article regarding private and public schools (athletics) is dead on. I have personally witnessed my kids being the victim (short end of the stick) in multiple sports. My oldest son graduated high school last May. His high school soccer team advanced to the second round of the playoffs three years straight, only to lose (twice) to eventual champ Cascia Hall. This squad was an outstanding soccer team and could beat anyone in their class, except Cascia Hall. Cascia was just on another level. It was ridiculous. Likewise in football, my son’s last football game came at the expense of Bishop McGuinness in OKC.”
Now here’s a problem from the other side. It’s not a divine right to win a state championship. OK, so Cascia cost this team a state title. But public schools have been knocking out public schools for decades. That’s the way athletics work. The idea that everyone is entitled to a championship is off base, and to paint the private schools as infidels that are stealing state championships from deserving public schools is just wrong.
Chigger – I swear I don’t make up these names – disagreed with me: “No, the OSSAA did not make the right call. Prime example: In 2007, my stepson played at the state basketball tournament. We lost in the semis to OCS. According to their own information in the program, they had nine seniors on that team. Guess what, they went up a class in 2008 and still made it to state in basketball.. How did they possibly go up a class, lose nine seniors and still get back to state? I will tell you how, they cheat! The 2008 OCS team had a kid from Texas and another from Arkansas.”
Here we go again. OK, let’s repeat. If you want to see mass movement by players in high school, check out the public schools. Transferring is rampant, in both large and small schools. As for how OCS made it to state after losing the core of its team, well, how about tradition and strong coaching and lots of depth. Same way all kinds of public schools make it back.
Josh: “I will respectfully disagree with you on the private school-public school debate. Keep the schools right where they are. Moving the private schools up one class will not solve a thing, except put the private schools at a competitive disadvantage. Moving them up one class would eliminate the private schools from the ability to win state championships, especially in football. I am a McGuinness alum class of ’98, and I played football. I remember people accusing us of recruiting and cheating even when we were in 5A. That was a ridiculous notion. Every major player on that team went to the likes of Rosary, Christ the King, Westminster or other Catholic feeder schools. Make no mistake this debate is all about one thing – jealousy over recent success. You cannot convince me otherwise. McGuinness has won a whopping two state titles on the gridiron and winning at this level in football is a fairly recent development. Greater credit needs to be given to coach Kenny Young. This debate takes credit away from him and several players who have worked very hard. The recent success is due to them and not some make-believe advantage that people seem to think exists. I’ll ask this, if there is such an advantage for the private schools, why are they not winning major sports championships every single year? They’re not. This success is due to two factors and two factors only – coaching and talent, nothing more.”
This will probably get me in some hot water, since some McGuinness folks are among my bosses at work, but the umbrage taken by the Irish on this issue is going to get us nowhere except all-out chaos. No matter how much you stand and shout that this all stems from McGuinness jealousy, it’s not true. This issue festered long before McGuinness’ 21st-century success, but the responses from both patrons and officials the last few weeks have only fanned the flames, which is different from some of the other private schools. If that attitude persists, this issue will not end well for McGuinness.
Jim: “Too bad more emphasis is not on education and funding schools for better equipment and paying for supplies so that the teachers do not have to buy them out of their own pockets!”
Great point. The issues that put public schools at a disadvantage on the athletic field are real. However, I wish we could spend more time discussing how to deal with those issues in the classroom, because that’s where the ultimate losing takes place.
Joyce: “The only difference I see is that most private schools require all of their students to participate in some form of athletics. Many private schools don’t elect to have PE for those who don’t want to participate in some sport. They believe that participating in team sports for all is essential to the students’ development. That, in a nutshell, is the difference. It could be solved by the public schools requiring all of their students to participate in some sport. It is unfair to punish students who have parents who really value their child’s education and are able in some way to allow him/her to attend a private school.”
I think you’re on to something here, Joyce, although it’s not punishment to attempt to level the playing field. Same thing goes for the privates that go with the publics: there’s no divine right to championships. But your idea about requiring participation is interesting. You can’t require kids to play sports, but you can require kids to participate in extra-curricular activities. Sports, music, drama, debate. Whatever. We always hear how extra-curricular activities keep kids in school and promote their all-around development. Let’s get serious about that notion.
Barry: “Your article on the OSSAA meeting was very well written. I’m a Bridge Creek parent and have been fully involved in this push for change. I appreciate your professionalism in covering the meeting. My concern is that the 1992 and 1998 committees accomplished zip. Our decisions now are to work within the committee, litigate or form a new league. There is a substantial group willing to separate. I’m curious if you think a new association would fly?”
I think a new association would be a big mess. Starting from zero would create virtual anarchy for several years, while the OSSAA would die on the vine almost immediately if most of the public schools dropped out. But I think a new association is possible if we don’t get rational people talking.
Jimmy: “Maybe one of the best articles authored by you that I have ever read. As a retired high school principal and former athletic director, I fully concur with your synopsis. I am glad cooler heads prevailed as there are extremists on both sides of this issue.”
You know what we’ve got here. Politics. With a capital P. We’ve got extremists on both sides, with not nearly enough people talking in the middle. And that’s what worries me the most. I look at Washington, I look at our state legislature, and I see venom. I see people uninterested in the greater good. And that’s what I see here.
David: “I agree that the original proposals were ludicrous. However, private school participation rates may not be related to keeping out the knuckleheads. Parents willing to sacrifice to pay tuition are much more likely to be involved in the school and its activities. My third child is attending Mount St. Mary, and we have been and continue to be very involved, as are many of the parents we know. The students are constantly being encouraged to get involved with the activities that interest them. Students on the teams know that they won’t be third or fourth string, because there aren’t enough kids to go much past second string. In football, everybody plays more than one position. This past year, our skill positions on the football team were manned by the best players on the basketball team. Imagine that team having to play those bigger schools week in and week out.”
The point about parenting is at the heart of the matter. That’s where knuckleheads mostly come from; homes where parenting has slipped. But the idea that St. Mary, for example, would be playing Carl Albert is silly. St. Mary is Class 2A. Under my plan, it would rise to 3A and play teams like Pauls Valley or OCS or Lexington. I promise you, the Lexington Bulldogs aren’t going three-deep at right tackle.
Bob: “An important part of the argument still doesn’t get hashed out. The punishment of the private school athletics is because public schools have become places where the knuckleheads rule. And that is not the fault of private schools. That is the fault of the public education paradigm. Public school administrators are not man enough to stand up and say it is our fault that our school environments are as they are, let’s quit picking on the privates and start emulating them. I don’t hear that or read that. Forty years ago in OKC, I went to McGuinness. Putnam City was the bastion of academics. Every year they went to the UCO academic weekend challenge and blew the field away. Harding High School was the public Casady. They sent kids to the Ivys every year. The bulk of John Marshall kids were from Nichols Hills and were high academic achievers. Douglass was a high academic, strict disciplined all-black school. Norman High School was a school like McGuinness is now. McGuinness had spartan facilities, no money and was taught by nuns, whether they had good academic backgrounds or not. You went to McGuinness because you were Catholic, and for no other reason. If you wanted the best facilities, the best academics, the best sports, you went to public schools. My neighborhood was Northwest Classen. I was jealous of what all my neighborhood friends had at their school. But I was Catholic. So my point is, this isn’t discussed. And it drives me crazy. The public schools are picking on privates because the environment is turned upside down. They need to spend the time emulating McGuinness like McGuinness did them for all these years. McGuinness saw what they weren’t and through the years adapted, raised money and changed to be like the publics. The publics need to tighten up their bootstraps and get to work, and realize their public school education paradigm is a joke and has failed our kids, and try to emulate the privates, not punish the privates. They should be embarrassed about the environment they have, not vindictive against the successful privates. Their vile is nonproductive. It won’t help their kids one bit. Focus on a new paradigm.”
I don’t know what you think I’m going to say about this one. Maybe I’ll fool you. I agree. I think the public schools have problems, and I think most of those problems stem from this. They are being asked to solve all kinds of societal ills unrelated to education. Behavioral. Emotional. Even nutritional. Public schools should get out of the social work business and get back to education. Discipline has left much of our public schools and it must return. I’m not talking about corporal punishment; that never solved anything. I’m talking about the requirement of respect, with the consequence of removal. Bring back the discipline into the public schools, and all of a sudden there’s no such a disparity between McGuinness and Southeast. Of course, until that discipline returns, there is a disparity between McGuinness and Southeast, which leads us back to the current question and what’s fair for the kids.
Dawn: “Let me guess, you have kids in private schools.”
No. My daughter attended Norman North. Let me guess. You thought the treaties at the end of World War I were just right.
-------------Berry Tramel can be heard Monday through Friday from 4:40-5:20 p.m. on The Sports Animal radio network, including AM-640 and FM-98.1. You can e-mail him here and follow him on Twitter @BerryTramel. Visit Berry's website here.
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Comments
“You can’t require kids to play sports, but you can require kids to participate in extra-curricular activities. Sports, music, drama, debate.”
Music, drama, debate, etc. are not extra-curricular activities except for any part which may take place outside the normal school day. How do you require students to participate in school activities during periods of time which many are working, babysitting siblings, riding a bus for an hour to get home. It is hard enough getting students to come in before or after school to get help with their homework. I think students should be required to participate in community service working at a nursing home, hospice, Red Cross, Salvation Army, Habitat for Humanity, etc. but I don’t see how it can be done. There are too many extenuating circumstances.
Wow!!! Amen…you surprise me. I would have thought you were one of those anti-German media type people who always attack Germany and the Germans no matter what. I’m glad to see that you believe the Versailles Treaty was a bunch of “Barbara Streisand” (that’s BS for you people in Aggie-land). Anyway, being from Texas, why doesn’t Oklahoma simply require all private schools to participate in special private school leagues and districts like they do in Texas and not compete against the public schools, except in non-district games?